[Avodah] No Supernatural of Incomprehensible Secrets

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Sep 03, 2010 at 03:45:55PM -0400, Yitzchak Schaffer wrote:
: On Sep 3, 2010, at 15:11, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:
: > On Fri, Sep 03, 2010 at 02:51:06PM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
: >> Lo nephlas he mimcha: [The Torah] does not deal with secrets that are
: >> supernatural and incomprehensible to the human mind.

: > This, ... is daas yachid territory.
: > (snip)
: >    ... RYS rationalizes the mystical. It's the essence of his
: >    derekh. E.g. we're in this world to refine the soul, but refining
: >    the soul is in fully rationalistic, character-based, terms.

: When I look at this RSRH again, I home in on the word
: incomprehensible. Chok definition aside, does he exclude all of the
: supernatural, or just the incomprehensible? If RYS is rational, perhaps
: they are not necessarily as far apart as this.

I am not sure I know what you think I meant when I used the word
"rationalizes".

The usual definition of choq invokes the transrational. That's different
than irrational. Parah adumah, eg, is said to make sense, but only using
a logic more complex than the human mind. The sensibility of parah adumah
is real, even if beyond our ken.

So, the second half of RSRH on "lo neflas hi mimkha" does run counter
to the way most understand chuqim.

That is orthogonal to the question of whether the causality that the
incomprehensible reason depends upon is natural or supernatual. (Or even
if the line between natural and supernatural evaporates if one could
think on that level of complexity.)

RYS bases his derekh on very comprehensible underpinnings. He doesn't
deny qabbalah, he just leaves the whole subject alone. RYS, being a
descendent of the Gra's mesorah would presumably say that the Torah
DOES deal with secrets that are supernatural as well as those that are
incomprehensible to the human mind (to paraphrase RYL's quote) -- but
one needn't invoke them to get on with living al derekh haTorah.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             We are great, and our foibles are great,
micha at aishdas.org        and therefore our troubles are great --
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