[Avodah] free will

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 05:43:46PM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: R' Eli Turkel wrote:

: > Several physicists have tried to years to base free will on quantum
: > mechanics. The problem with all such proofs is that even if they
: > are accepted they only destroy determinism with randomization -
: > not with free will. Free will implies an active choice not just
: > that our actions are random rather than determined a priori

: The problem here is in the word "randomization".

It seems to me that neither RET nor RAM sufficiently took into account
the fact that the paper doesn't discuss quantum events themselves,
but what uncertainty says about the measurement process.

They're not saying that quantum uncertainty is the freedom in freedom
of will, but that the role of measurement places constraints on what
can determine which measurement the experimentor chooses to make.

In this sense, it's very different than other QM papers I've read.


: It seems to me that quantum mechanics does NOT replace determinism with
: randomization. Quantum mechanics is willing to concede that things might
: still be deterministic, but that they *appear* to be random, because there
: is nothing in this physical universe which is making the determination.

AND the outcomes fit a probability distribution that correlates to the
magnitude of the wave function.

So that the non-random cause you're positing would still have to yeild the
result that particles already measured to rotate clockwise around their
direction of travel, when their spin is measured on the up vs down axis
will yeild 50% clockwise (spin-up) and 50% counterclockwise (spin-down).

Thus, if you tie the freedom of bechirah chafshi to quantum uncertainty,
it has real limits other than the constraints of physics. (IOW beyond
limits like: you can't choose to flap your arms and fly.)

: In some cases, my bechira chafshit (which is part of my
: neshama/nefesh/soul/whatever and is not part of this physical world)
: makes a decision, and this causes the quantum events in my brain to go
: in a certain direction, causing my free-willed hand to do this or do that.

And the brain, being a chaotic system with many positive feedback loops
will maginfy any such quantum even to the macroscopic level. (Barring
the problem in my previous paragraph with assuming those events are
non-random.)

But as I wrote in my first comment in this post -- that's not the topic
of this paper.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A person lives with himself for seventy years,
micha at aishdas.org        and after it is all over, he still does not
http://www.aishdas.org   know himself.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter