[Avodah] new editions

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 02:58:13PM +0200, Arie Folger wrote:
: Sorry, but - bim'hilat kevot Torato - the above sounds like pure
: nonsense. Writing (even printing) the SA was not a magical moment that
: turned all authors into A'haronim. In fact, if you'd want to go by
: acceptance of the SA as *the* codex, then you'd want to know when it
: was accepted, which took at least a few years.

I would argue that the acceptance of the SA defines the SA as the end of
the era. IOW, the SA ends the period of rishonim in Sepharad, but that
definition of "Sepharadi rishon" didn't exist for a generation or two.

By accepting the SA as "*the* codex" (at least in the Seph universe),
we're saying that the SA is our baseline for assessing all arguments
since its composition. That anyone post SA who wishes to disagree with
it would feel a requirement to justify the machloqes by bringing sources.

Which is exactly the difference in how acharonim relate to rishonim in
comparison to other acharonim.

(Also, why rishonim don't defer to geonim but rather freely differ with
them. No close-of-geonim codex.)

I think the deference acharonim give rishonim is actually caused by their
power to give justification for disagreeing with "*the* codex", and thus
yes -- the authorship of the book defines the end of the era. (Again,
in the Seph universe, where the claim of "*the* codex" without needing
to add the Rama and perhaps even the earlier nosei keilim is more clear.)

: But all that is unneeded. There is no strict demarcation line, just
: like there is no strict line between Tannaim and Amoraim, with Rav
: tanna upalig, R' 'Hiyya and R' Oshaya, etc...

It is true, though, that my line of reasoning would make the overlapping
generation a gray area.

Still, I recall someone on Avodah arguing the SA as a hard date. If you
recall, the post you're replying to was a summary of positions already
discussed *and sourced* here. Not my own thoughts.

: So, I agree that there are different ways to attempt to figure out
: what the Beis Yossef *really* thought (and I am quite mystified that
: you left out his magnum opus from the sources of possible definite
: opinion. I would consider that the most weighty source)...

Because I do not recall anyone in the previous discussion who considered
the BY definitive. It's earlier than the SA, and far more theoretical
than a presentation of halakhah ulemaaseh.

It's a great work; but we're talking pesaq, not talmud Torah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A pious Jew is not one who worries about his fellow
micha at aishdas.org        man's soul and his own stomach; a pious Jew worries
http://www.aishdas.org   about his own soul and his fellow man's stomach.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rav Yisrael Salanter