[Avodah] anti-meat rhetoric "according to Judaism"

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R' Micha Berger wrote:

> Here's my take on TBC. Animals have no "I", no awareness of their
> own mental states. This appears to be true based on brain anatomy

Whether they are or are not "aware of their own mental state" seems irrelevant to me. They can and do feel pain, don't they?

> You are setting a threshold based on the notion that there is real
> suffering going on that carries a moral burden to avoid. Who said?

Are you saying that there's no real suffering going on?

I suspect that people are talking past each other because we're not being clear on the nature of the alleged Tzaar Baalei Chayim. We all understand that geese don't like being force-fed, and the only question is whether or not it is assur to do so.

I suspect that the nature of the pain in this "farm vs. factory" discussion is much murkier. I have a feeling that some claim the problem to be that the animals don't like being cooped up in a factory, and would prefer to roam freely on the farm, and that RMB is claiming that these animals are not experiencing any pain other than a supposed Heartbreak Of Being Cooped Up, which is something they have no awareness of.

Am I close? If not, then what *is* the pain that RMB denies?

Akiva Miller

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