[Avodah] anti-meat rhetoric "according to Judaism"

[Jacob Farkas]

R Micha Berger:
> I was arguing that given the low threshold for the definition of
> unnecessary pain in the din of tzaar baalei chaim, the fact that we
> are already worried about stretched budgets may mean that no, there is
> no such chiyuv. The point is not being pointlessly cruel. Keeping meat
> affordable, particulary given the dinim and minhagim of Shabbos and YT,
> would appear to make any additional pain to be cruelty with a purpose.

I respectfully disagree. People have been eating pasture fed beef and
chicken up until the last few decades. This form of meat has not
become less affordable in its own right. Factory Farming has the
intended result of an inexpensive product, so meat has actually become
a lot cheaper. This of course, allows for increased consumption within
the same budget. In order to afford buying meat at the pasture-raised
prices, you would just have to purchase less product. On what basis is
it permitted to increase consumption at the animals expense, and then
turn around and uphold the practice because otherwise we won't be able
to afford continuing to do so ???

</snip>
>
> On Sun Jul 11 19:25:57 PDT, Jacob Farkas replied:
>>: 1) While Judaism mandates that people should be very careful about
>>: preserving their health and their lives...
>>: 2) While Judaism forbids tsa'ar ba'alei chayim, inflicting unnecessary pain
>>: on animals...
>>: 4) While Judaism mandates bal tashchit..
>
>> I will agree that argument #1 (and to some degree #3,#4,#5, and #6)
>> cited is hyperbole, argument #2 is mostly accurate. The key issue is
>> factory farming though, and not necessarily the eating of meat. The
>> overwhelming majority of meat in this country is available through
>> this channel, and Kosher meat is no different.
>
R Micha Berger:
> There appears to be a mismatch between my discussion of the relatively
> small size of necessary benefit to man, and RJF's response addressing
> of the amount of avoidable pain to the animals being greater than most
> people assume.
>
> As I wrote above, I think that one can establish that factory farming
> is needful.

It is nearly impossible to prove the imperative to keep consumption at
current levels. Otherwise, you can't argue 'needful.'

>
> Ideal as a lifnim mishuras hadin? Perhaps not. But in terms of issur,
> I would (if I were a poseiq) argue that cost is sufficient for the tzaar
> not to be simply assur as cruelty.

Cost (including profit motive) is most certainly a factor in weighing
the merits of any animal-related practice against unnecessary cruelty.
But there is an alternative, tried and true, that allows for a pound
of Fleisch without a drop of Tza'ar.

--Jacob Farkas