[Avodah] anti-meat rhetoric "according to Judaism"

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:30:32AM +0800, I. Balbin wrote:
: Sure, but is there a need/chiyuv for a Kehila to actively seek meat
: that is known to be produced in farms that are more "animal friendly"? ...

I was arguing that given the low threshold for the definition of
unnecessary pain in the din of tzaar baalei chaim, the fact that we
are already worried about stretched budgets may mean that no, there is
no such chiyuv. The point is not being pointlessly cruel. Keeping meat
affordable, particulary given the dinim and minhagim of Shabbos and YT,
would appear to make any additional pain to be cruelty with a purpose.

OTOH, I encountered this interesting Y-mi this morning...

Kelaim 9:3 42a tells us that Rebbe considered his 17 years in Tzipori[n]
to be like "Vayechi Yaaqov beEretz Mitzrayim seva-esrei shanah". Meaning,
he finally felt at peace and accomplishing, after being reunited with
Yoseif. Even though for 13 of them he had an excrutiating toothache. (The
Bavli's version has it that he had a stomach ailment.)

R' Yosi bei R' Bun said that due to the kaparah caused by his suffering,
no nursing mother died in Israel, nor were their any stillbirths in the
land of Israel during those 13 years.

And why did he have that toothache?

Because one time he passed a calf going to slaughter. The calf begged
him, "Rebbe, save me!" Rabbi Yehudah answered "This is what you were
created for."

It ended when Rabbi Yehudah saw an exterminator going to kill termites,
and Rebbe pleaded that he spare them, because HQBH is "verachamav al
kol maasav" (Tehillim 145, "Ashrei").

But I don't think anyone would argue that tzaar baalei chaim *requires*
giving up one's home to termites!

On Sun Jul 11 19:25:57 PDT, Jacob Farkas replied:
>: 1) While Judaism mandates that people should be very careful about
>: preserving their health and their lives...
>: 2) While Judaism forbids tsa'ar ba'alei chayim, inflicting unnecessary pain
>: on animals...
>: 4) While Judaism mandates bal tashchit..

> I will agree that argument #1 (and to some degree #3,#4,#5, and #6)
> cited is hyperbole, argument #2 is mostly accurate. The key issue is
> factory farming though, and not necessarily the eating of meat. The
> overwhelming majority of meat in this country is available through
> this channel, and Kosher meat is no different.

There appears to be a mismatch between my discussion of the relatively
small size of necessary benefit to man, and RJF's response addressing
of the amount of avoidable pain to the animals being greater than most
people assume.

As I wrote above, I think that one can establish that factory farming
is needful.

Ideal as a lifnim mishuras hadin? Perhaps not. But in terms of issur,
I would (if I were a poseiq) argue that cost is sufficient for the tzaar
not to be simply assur as cruelty.

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Zion will be redeemed through justice,
micha at aishdas.org        and her returnees, through righteousness.
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