[Avodah] popcorn/kytnyot.

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 01:26:13PM +0000, rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com wrote:
: It's not an issur it's a cheshash! rules rre completey different for a
: ch'shash and are being misapplied
...
: "Who first said qitniyos became an issur and is no longer a simple
: g'zeira/ch'shash?"

I would have phrased it differently: It's not even a "real" gezeira, ie
a gezeira in the limited sense of Hil' Mamrim 2:2 set up by beis din
hagadol. It's a minhag ratified by non-musmachim (semichas Moshe).

We bend or even break it for tinoqos and cholim, for example.

Lo kol shekein!

BTW, about "g'zeira/ch'shash". When looking up
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2006/02/types-of-halachic-rulings.shtml>
(and in the Avodah discussion that led to my refining what I wrote for
the scj FAQ to produce that post) I concluded that most use the words
gezeira and seyag interchangably -- literally, they both mean "fence"
in their respective languages.

However, the Tif'eres Yisrael on Edios divides gezeira into two
subtypes. Quoting that blog entry:

    1. Siyag. Fence ... Something that will lead to a future violation
       to do an error in understanding the law. Such as the ban on
       mixing poultry and milk, lest people become lenient in mixing
       meat and milk.

    2. Cheshash. Concern. Cases where the threat of violation is in
       the current situation, because one is in a circumstance where
       habit taking over or other accident is likely.

    The Tif'eres Yisrael says that a cheshash can be deemed inapplicable
    if the norms change such that the threat no longer exists. It does
    not require a beis din that is greater in number or wisdom as the
    law is not lifted, just that the current situation is deemed to be
    outside the limits the law addressed.

Leshitaso, this is what RRW would call a "siyag" and I would prefer to
term a "minhag in the shadow of a siyag", not a cheshash.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A life of reaction is a life of slavery,
micha at aishdas.org        intellectually and spiritually. One must
http://www.aishdas.org   fight for a life of action, not reaction.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            -Rita Mae Brown