[Avodah] timtum halev

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 03:40:12PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
:>Apparently RET was giving the converse, that positive machshava does
:>not count. This part I don't get - I would see HKBH is mitztareif
:>machshavah l'maaseh, especially when there is a maaseh, albeit flawed.
: 
: It's an explicit gemara, Bava Basra 9b.  "Yirmiyah said before HKBH:
: RBSO, even when they bend their inclination and seek to do tzedaka
: before you, make them stumble into unworthy people, so that they will
: not receive any reward."

This is soseir Berakhos 6a and Qiddushin 40a, and therefore it's discussed
by the Nimuqei Yoseif and acharonim. I found this in
<http://dafyomi.co.il/bbasra/insites/bb-dt-009.htm> from Kollel Iyun
haDaf ad loc:

   2) ONE WHO SEEKS TO DO GOOD

   QUESTION: The Gemara teaches that if a person is worthy, Hash-m
   [sic -micha] causes people who deserve charity to come to him for
   Tzedakah. If a person is not worthy, people who do not deserve charity
   will come to him. Rabah derives this from the verse, "May they be
   caused to stumble before You; at the time of Your anger, act against
   them" (Yirmeyahu 18:23), in which Yirmeyahu asked Hash-m to cause
   the sinners of the people to stumble. Rabah explains that Yirmeyahu
   asked Hash-m that even at a time when the people would overcome their
   evil inclinations and seek to do charity, Hash-m should send them
   recipients who do not deserve charity so that they will not receive
   reward for their acts of charity.

   The Acharonim ask that the Gemara in Berachos (6a) and in Kidushin
   (40a) teaches that when a person intends to do a Mitzvah but is
   prevented from doing it (due to an Ones, a circumstance beyond his
   control), he is rewarded as if he had done the Mitzvah. Why, then,
   would it help Yirmeyahu's purpose if the people gave charity to those
   who were undeserving of charity? The givers still had intention to
   do the Mitzvah of Tzedakah, and therefore they should receive reward
   for that intention. (SUKAS DAVID, DEVAR MOSHE)

   ANSWERS:

   (a) The DEVAR MOSHE suggests that the sins of the givers themselves
   would make them unfit to give charity to deserving causes.
   Consequently, when undeserving people come to them for charity,
   it would not be considered an Ones, for it would be a result of
   the givers' own sins that they would not be able to give charity to
   worthy causes.

   (b) The NIMUKEI YOSEF in Bava Kama (6b of the pages of the Rif)
   cites the RAMAH who explains that a person who gives charity to
   an undeserving recipient receives reward only when he is not aware
   that the recipient is undeserving. When the giver is aware that the
   recipient is undeserving, then he does not receive any reward for
   his act. (I. Alsheich)

The Devar Moshe says the lack of reward is for whatever took them out
of the realm of megalgelim zekhus a"y zakai.

Notice the Nimuqei Yoseif's answer directly parallels my take on timtum
haleiv depending upon the person ever knowing that what they ate, or
what the women from whom they once nursed ate, was treif. So even if
I'm mistaken about this perat, I feel comfortable saying I'm heading in
a solid direction.

Both take it for granted that the kind of causality interfering with an
expression of justice RZS asserts here (kedarko, as I believe it's part
of Chassidus) would be fundamentally problematic.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

PS: Can anyone tell me more about the Sukkas David and Devar Moshe?

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
micha at aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
http://www.aishdas.org   other people think when dealing with spiritual
Fax: (270) 514-1507      matters?              - Rav Yisrael Salanter