[Avodah] Who First Said it? 2

[rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com]

Chanoch
> When you think about it after reading what the Shulchan Aruch had to
> say, the two ways in which he clarified the gemara aren't really such
> a big leap.

> I guess we're left with a different question: "when did it become the
> custom to teach the child to ask all of these four questions in school
> before the seder, rather than [primarily -micha] prompting him at the
> seder?"
...
> There's another issue: what happens if the child does ask about the
> karpas -- do you still need to ask the 4 questions? The Rema brings the
> Maharil that you don't. (But I imagine many people do so anyway.)

This is very good, quite germane
As I wrote earlier, the later version can be retrofitted to the text,
but AFAIK it is a different, revised [?] understanding from what the
Rishonim had

BEH I will look into this more.

So we see by the time of the SA it had changed or was changing.
The Maharil reflects the simple read of the Abbaye story, viz. Once a
child has been successfuly stimulated, we're off the hook.

BUT, there may emerge TWO independent dynamics here:

A Get the tinoqos to ask
B set up avadim hayyinu with more sophisticated questions or observations

And this sheeta of the SA [i would guess it's a quote] is apparently
conflating the 2.


And the innovation of coaching the child before the seder obsoletes
or obviates doing the k'dei sheyish'alu AT the seder. The two do not
co-exist well! The Mishnaic Seder could not have anticipated that
the child knew mah nishtana walking into the seder - that would be
incredulous. If they were coached why bother going through the motions?

KT
RRW
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