[Avodah] Revenge and Punishment

[T613K at aol.com]

From: Dov Kaiser _dov_kay at hotmail.co.uk_ (mailto:dov_kay at hotmail.co.uk) 


R.  Eidensohn excerpted:

<<*Yoma^] (23a): *Any scholar who does not  avenge himself and bear grudge 
like a snake is not a real talmid chachom.  [SNIP]>>


The Gemara is working hard to find a heikhei timtza  for R. Yochanan's 
statement that a talmid chakham who does not take revenge like  a snake is not a 
real talmid chakham.  It rejects the possibility that the  statement refers 
to monetary matters, as the Torah forbids revenge in this  area.  It then 
rejects the possibility that it refers to taking revenge for  a tzaara 
d'gufa, because we have already learned in Shabbos 68b about the virtue  of 
*ha-ne'elavin v'ein olvin* ...  The Gemara then narrows down the  application of 
the statement to a case where the talmid chakham suffers tzaara  d'gufa but 
receives no apology....

RMB has already clarified that there  are Rishonim who explain this 
statement of R. Yochanan to be referring to  slights to kevod haTorah rather than 
personal slights.  However, there is  no hint to that qualification in the 
words of the Gemara in  Yoma....


 

Kol tuv
Dov Kaiser   
 
>>>>>>
To answer in a way that Rashi would say is not wise -- that  is, to answer 
your last point first -- I would say that the "hint" you find  lacking in 
the Gemara is the very word "scholar"!  By saying that a  *talmid chacham* 
must take revenge it implies right there in those very words  that it is 
talking about slights to kovod haTorah!
 
Now to go back and take another look at the rest of this post (and  this 
whole thread), the question is, under what circumstances is it  [permissible] 
[necessary] to take revenge, given that the Torah seems to command  
forgiveness?  We've already just mentioned one circumstance in which  it is 
apparently necessary, viz, a slight to kovod haTorah.  Others may be  found in the 
Tefillah Zakah recited just before Yom Kippur.  This  tefilla was composed, 
according to ArtScroll, by R' Avraham Danzig, author  of Chayei Adam, so I 
will take him as an authority for what kinds of sins one  [need not] [may not] 
forgive, when someone has harmed you.
 
Here is the ArtScroll translation of the relevant  passage:
 
==begin quote==
Behold!  I extend complete forgiveness to everyone who has  sinned against 
me, whether physically or monetarily, or who has gossiped about  me or even 
slandered me.  So, too, to anyone who has injured me, whether  physically or 
financially, and for any human sins between man and his neighbor  -- except 
 for money that I wish to claim and that I can recover by law,  and except 
for someone who sins against me and says, "I will sin against him and  he 
will forgive me" -- except for these I grant complete forgiveness; and may no  
person be punished on my account.
==end quote==     
 
Of course, this goes even beyond what the Torah requires, since the  Torah 
does not forbid a person to call out to Hashem to punish their  oppressor.  
In fact the Torah itself says that if a widow or  orphan cries to Hashem 
because someone has mistreated them, that Hashem will  listen to them and woe 
betide their oppressor.
 
But the Tefillah Zakah does carve out clear exceptions to the "I  forgive 
everybody" statement, and these are, damages that can be claimed in  legal 
proceedings, and harm caused by a person who thinks he can act with  impunity 
and presumably keeps sinning against the same victim without  remorse.   
 

--Toby  Katz
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