[Avodah] Halacha vs. Policy - Poll re: Who To Marry

[Samuel Svarc]

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Michael Makovi <mikewinddale at gmail.com> wrote:
>> A person has the
>> choice of marrying a Jewish woman who doesn't observe the laws of family
>> purity or a non-Jewish woman. Which is preferable? A student who has not
>> properly served an apprenticeship with an experienced posek will say
>> that it is obvious that the person should chose to marry the non-Jewish
>> woman.
>>
>> Rabbi Yaakov Kaminetsky, quoted by R' Daniel Eidensohn
>
> I've seen this before, and I've never understood where Rabbi Kaminetsky
> gets his prima facie from. I haven't served as an apprentice to a poseq,
> but nevertheless, it was still my gut reaction that marrying the Jewish
> woman who violates niddah is preferable to marrying the non-Jew. This is
> obvious, and you don't need to serve under a poseq to know it. I don't see
> why serving under a poseq would make this any more or less obvious. Why on
> earth would someone think that it is better to marry the non-Jew??!! Just
> read all the Tanakhic narratives and midrashim about marrying gentiles,
> versus the narratives and midrashim about niddah, and see which one says
> worse things. I believe Ezra compares intermarriage to worshiping other
> gods, but I don't recall seeing anything like this about niddah. Rabbi
> Kaminetsky's opinion, that the unexperienced unlearned will say that it
> is better to marry a non-Jew, is simply false in my experience.

I'm reminded here of Aristotle's assertion that one who guesses
correctly is no better then someone who doesn't. It is only when one
can know why something is that you have attained something. RYK
didn't even address himself to people who "guess" correctly as that
was outside his conception of the possible. He was addressing the
beginning student's errors.

> I just asked a random non-gadol friend of mine to answer this question,
> and he answered (without missing a beat) that to him it was obvious,
> a no-brainer, that one marries the Jewish woman who violates niddah,
> and not the gentile.

Ditto.

> So I'm not sure why Rabbi Kaminetsky thinks it is obvious that the
> non-scholar will answer that a non-Jew is preferable. It appears to me
> that no, the non-scholar will answer that the Jewish woman who violates
> niddah is preferable.
>
> So I'm confused. Why does Rabbi Kaminetsky believe (wrongly, IMHO)
> that the non-scholar will answer that a non-Jew is preferable?

RYK did not refer to a non-scholar but rather an inexperienced one
that hasn't received training.

> If Rabbi Kaminetsky is basing himself on which has the more severe
> punishment, then this is obviously a false analysis, and it take no
> talmid hakham to realize it. By that logic, it is preferable for me
> to kill someone by grama (which is patur from all earthly punishment),
> instead of stealing a penny (which is punished by my having to pay two
> pennies). But what kind of idiot would say that it is preferable to
> murder rather than steal one cent, simply because the punishment for
> the theft is more severe? Since when we do pasqen by punishment!!!

You are contradicting an explicit Rambam in PA 2:1.

> It
> says right in Pirqei Avot that we serve G-d not because of reward and
> punishment!!

This is referring to our motivation and itself needs a more
sophisticated understanding. There are plenty of Chazals in Pirkei
Avos that seem to contradict, such as "Calculate the cost of a mitzvah
against its reward and the reward of a sin against its cost", etc.

> Anyone who answers based on the more severe punishment, is
> simply an imbecile who knows nothing about Torah.

I'm glad you consider someone who made a logical mistake as an
"imbecile". I'm sure you'll understand why I don't agree with you.

> So maybe an imbecile
> will answer that it is preferable to marry a non-Jew rather than a Jew
> who violates niddah, but the frum Jew of average intelligence (but still
> NOT a talmid hakham) will answer differently than the imbecile.

As above, an inexperienced student basing himself on the Rambam can
make such a mistake. This is worthy of correcting. A simple guesser??
Who really cares how he guessed? Not RYK.

> [EMail #2. -micha]
>
> One little aside: the fact that according to Rabbi Yaakov Kaminetsky's
> litmus test, I've (almost?) a poseq, is good evidence for why I distrust
> authority so much, and for why I'm so ready to disagree with those far
> greater than me. Rabbi Kaminetsky offers a litmus test to distinguish
> between those who have apprenticed under a poseq, and those who haven't,
> and according to his test, I have in fact so apprenticed!! It is only due
> to my own knowledge of myself that I know I'm nowhere near the stature
> of a poseq, but if I were to rely on Rabbi Kaminetsky's test, I'd have
> to say I am in fact a poseq. Anyone who's standards are so low as his,
> I don't want to be a part of his group. If Rabbi Kaminetsky's litmus
> test for poseqim is indicative of his own personal stature as a poseq,
> then I don't want him as my poseq. He says I'm of the stature of a poseq,
> but I disagree and I say I'm not of that stature.
>
> That is why I'm so ready to disagree with those greater than me.

So, just to check if I'm understanding you, based on your mistaken
comprehension of those greater then you, you then choose to disagree
with them whenever you feel like it?

Try this on for size. Next time you have difficulty understanding
something, follow the Ramban, R' Chaim Volohizner, etc., and *ask* for
help in understanding. It is logical that such an explanation exists,
unless what you truly believe is that you are in fact greater then
them. As R' Micha wrote to you, "That's a great question, not a great
answer." [parahrased from memory]

KT,
MSS