[Avodah] Counting a Wife Beater Toward a Minyan

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 07:22:33PM -0600, Chanoch (Ken) Bloom wrote:
: Isn't placing someone in cherem an action the beit din takes. Which is
: to say that he isn't in cherem until the beit din declares him to be in
: cherem. Or do I have this wrong?

Not always. A BD could place "everyone who does XYZ is in cheirem", eg
Rabbeinu Gershom's charamim.

Here it's called a cheirem haqadmonim (I rendered it "an excommunication
of the ancients), so I understand it similarly.

And besides, wouldn't you need a beis din saying "al da'as haMaqom ve'al
da'as haqahal, anu matirim lehispallel im ha'avaryanim"? But again, this
would be an issur on counting him, not proof that bedi'eved or beshogeig,
he wouldn't count as part of the minyan.

I found RZS's diyuq halashon less than compelling. But even
non-compelling, it is another possible understanding of the SA and
thus I find the din ambiguous as to whether this is an issur against
counting him, or one against doing things that require a minyan because
you counted him (even if out of ignorance).

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I slept and dreamt that life was joy.
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