[Avodah] Coca Cola ingredients

[rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com]

Martin Brody
> "What is the "shiur" of "being felt"? Suppose that instead of garlic
> powder, there was a non-kosher ingredient used? Do we consider it batel
> unless the taste-tester says, "I can taste the lard in this"?

Bemin besheino mino that is the din in Shas rambam and m'chabeir
[IOW t'imas qk6eila rama'ah]
Rema is machmir to require 1/60. There is a big machloqes rishonim now
that works
    - BOTH Nosein ta'am plus 1/60
    - 1/60 instead of nosein taam [proxy]
    - 1/60 acts only to permit eating until the Jew himself detects issur
Etc. 

M Brody
> The shiur is 1.6%. Chazal knew what they were doing.

Hazal actually demanded t'imas q'feila armaah in min besheino mino
as above.

And yoreh deiah is replete with exceptions 
simanim 100-104 has most but not davar hamaamid or the avidta l'chazussa
in maseches beitzah.

and Rambam has many more in maachalos assuros 15-17 EG orlah kilayim

This 1/60 ratio as posted earlier has been used as a mindless slogan
by those who aren't posqim. It's simply mis-leading to do that. My YD
rebbe admonished us about this 35 years ago NOT to parrot this slogan.

> Very few tastes can be identified below that level"

All kinds of tastes and textures can be detected below that level. What
may be true is that unintentional additions rarely do harm. I would bet
that intentional ones aderabba often would/could be detected!



> The ingredient was added deliberately, but by a non-Jew, so does it
> count as L'chatchila or B'diavad?

1 If added FOR A JEW it is not bateil ever.
See
    SA YD 99:5-6
    Esp. Shach 11
    GRA 9
    Taz 10
    Hidushei R Aqiva Eiger 
[2 points]
And see Rema when haticha naaseis n'veilah could kick in

Thus an unkosher ingredient could contaminate a mixture EG 50 times its
size - and in turn that mixture itself becomes n'veilah and in turn can
contaminate 3000 times the original issur!

Also see Rema about knowledge of a taaroves and its impact upon Bittull

2 if added regularly it is no longer seen as b'diavad. IOW b'di'avad
cannot be applied to an ongoing process - only an incidental one
[I posted a source about a week ago, but I don't have it handy]

Since almost all these points were well-covered already in previous posts
therefore R Martin Brody will apparently remain uncovinced. Nevertheless
- hopefully the onlookers will learn this for themselves and see what
posqim say.

KT
RRW
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