[Avodah] When did Judaism begin?

[Micha Berger]

Thinking about it, really, more thinking about offlist comments by
RRW...

The whole question has more to do with what does the word "Jewish" mean
in contemporary O usage than anything actually Torah.

There was a beris adam, which was supplanted by the beris Noach.
Then there was the beris avos, which may have been supplanted by beris
    Sinai, or embellished by a second beris.
Then there is the beris mei'eiver hanahar, which the Torah in Devarim
    says is "milvad" the first -- IOW definitely in addition.

Gid hanahsheh is the case where the question between whther beris avos
was replaced or added to may be relevent. Are we following the same
issur as Yaaqov and his sons, or a different one given at Sinai? RRW
already describes the machloqes, I'm going to recast it into these
terms: Rashi says that it is the same issur, and thus beris sinai is a
layer atop beris avos, and the Rambam holds that our issur is from sinai
-- beris avos is thus replaced.

The word "Judaism" means the beris Sinai as developed by the people who
survived the fall of Malkhus Yehudah. It's after the loss of the 10
shevatim that we are first called "Yehudim" -- in Daniel and in Esteir.
When we speak of Hashem taking "the Jews" out of Egypt, we are therefore
using the term anachronistically, as most of the Yotz'ei Mitzrayim
aren't the ancestors of the survivors of Malkhus Yehudah. It's a
colloquialism.

The discussion we're having therefore boils down to: When we speak of
this anachronistic colloquial "Judaism" are we using it to refer to
members of beris sinai or even of beris avos? And how much does that
depend on the machloqes Rashi and the Rambam? AND, since it is a
colloquialism rather than a technical term -- do we even know if we're
using it consistantly?

Framing the question this way removes it from being on-topic for Avodah.
Although the machloqes itself would be appropriate, as is the question of
whether or not it is on-topic, ie whether or not there is a Torah-based
difference between whether or not we call Yosef a "Jew".

Gut Voch!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Time flies...
micha at aishdas.org                    ... but you're the pilot.
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