[Avodah] Coat Room Mix-up

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:26:14PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
: >3- Like case 2, but enough time has since passed that we could assume
: >   the owner would have complained and gotten recompensated by then.

: If we're talking about a swap, why would she pay him?  What loss did he
: suffer by getting your shirt instead of his?  Assuming the shirts are of
: comparable value...

As one example... If he is a half a size larger than you, his shirt
would fit you, but yours would be useless to him.

: Also, in the first case, what does he mean with "and when the thing's
: owner comes he must return it even though his own thing was lost"?
: How was it lost, if the other person took it? ...

Because I rendered it "even if", not "even though". IOW, he has to
return it whether or not his own thing was lost. It's there in my
translation.

: Also, in the first case, what does he mean with "and when the thing's
: owner comes he must return it even though his own thing was lost"?
: How was it lost, if the other person took it? ...

The other person broke it, lost it, etc...

: It seems to me that the Kitzur is not talking about the second person,
: who finds his item gone and another one in its place, but rather about
: the first person, who took someone else's item without looking, and
: didn't realise it until he got home.  Now he must not use it any more,
: since he has no basis for believing that the owner has his item.

Certainly it's the 2nd person, since the first guy to leave the pub is
less like the person who got the wrong shirt back from the laundry.

But he doesn't know what happened to his own shirt, does he? We do. He
only guesses that someone else got it. He doesn't know who the someone
else is, or what he did with it when it arrived.

In any case, RMF understands the halakhah as I did, and also why the
shul coat-room is an exceptional case -- IF that's what everyone else
has established as norm. My own perplexities with this se'if were
resolved.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Live as if you were living already for the
micha at aishdas.org        second time and as if you had acted the first
http://www.aishdas.org   time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Live as if you were living already for the
micha at aishdas.org        second time and as if you had acted the first
http://www.aishdas.org   time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning