[Avodah] electricity on shabbat

[rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com]

Micha: 
> RRW suggested that this showed that electricity was a matter of societal 
> taqanah. 

> I would instead suggest that it illustrates the role of "daas Torah",
> thinking from the gestalt, using "gefeel" or however it should be
> labeled -- in producing pesaq. There was an instinctive "this couldn't
> fit Shabbos" which those who have a more reliable insinct about such
> things all felt in common. What they couldn't converge on is the formal 
> justification. 

I'm not so sure about electricity in general. 

My current position, [which is not firm] is 
Redhot electric filaments ARE eish vaday 
.Maybe all electricals producing light and heat are also hav'ara. 

I don't get CI's point re: boneh 

Electricity stam might be a policy shema one does light or heat. To
me it's a perfectly legit ch'shash or "policy" or s'yag. It's not a
societal Tagqanah like RMF and timers! It's don't do any electiricty
shema one does hav'ara -- a d'oraissa.

I agree there is a consensus and that means a lot to my way methodology.

But the more s'varos given, the less likely that any one is the definitive
s'vara.

And we can punt to Potter Stewart's -- "I know it when I see it" thinking.

Ideally aisi a policy to prevent a d'oraisso fits "asu s'yag l'torah"
best. It's very "traditional"

To me strict constructionism could lead to making electiricty mamash mutar

And gefeel could lead to prohibitng electric watches or to. A svara that
opening a faucet into a "water circuit" and therefore assur.

Personal Note: I'm going to be under a lot of time pressure for a while
and I may be reducing my volume for several weeks.

GV 
RRW 
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