[Avodah] krumkeit

[Samuel Svarc]

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Eli Turkel <eliturkel at gmail.com> wrote:
> <<MSS <ssvarc at gmail.com>:
>> And this is only logical, one needs
>> guidance in "how to learn", in what is a "good" sevara and what is a
>> "bad" sevara. This type of knowledge is only through mesorah.
>
> I disagree. I have heard enough people who have been in yeshiva for
> many years come out with a krum sevara.

So what is your "fix"? More "book knowledge"? Obviously (at least to
me!) one needs a mentor or in other words. Mesorah.

> Part of the problem is how to distinguish good logic from bad logic.
> Obvious those who are very krum believe themselves to be very logical.
>
> I would argue the opposite that learning mathematics is a good start for
> thinking logically. Either something can be proven or not.

And here lies your mistake. Torah is not like math. There is 70 facets
to Torah, there are multiple ways to 'mitaher the sheretz', etc. To
train people in that there is only one type of "logical" sevara, like
math does, is to do them a disservice when it comes to Torah study.

> I know of universities that use math grades in acceptance of students not
> because of the necessity of math in that subject but because it shows a
> logical mind

As explained above, this might actually be a drawback in terms of
being able to grasp Torah sevaros, which have a far greater range of
subtleness - comparable to analog and as opposed to math's binary
choice of true answer or false answer.

KT,
MSS