[Avodah] Ein Mevatlin issur lechatchilah

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R' Martin Brody wrote:
> It's not the European model. It's the laws of kashrut
> from the Gemara,Shulkan Aruch, Rishonim, Achronim ...

R' Micha Berger responded:
> We should also note that when it comes to beer, whiskey,
> tea, and a number of other established items, the rules
> did not get changed.

Examples of the "other established items" can include frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. I remember, decades ago, learning which varieties could be purchased without a hechsher, and which ones (such as beans and tomatoes) were frequently cooked in the same utensils as other foods, and therefore needed a hechsher. Even now, I pay extra attention to the many kashrus publications when they tell us about these things, including the latest information - from mumchim in the field - about which other ingredients (such as sugar, juice, etc.) are problematic.

But we can go even further, and include *fresh* fruits and vegetables. Is there anyone on the list who refrains from eating unpeeled apples or cucumbers, for fear that the wax on them might be treif? Alternatively, is there anyone who - for kashrus reasons - is makpid to purchase only apples and cucumbers which do not have this wax?

RMB also pointed out:

> But in general, we made many more things efshar levareir by
> growing a large kashrus industry. The question no longer is
> whether we had to; but rather now that they are, can we
> really rely on the same rules of birur as before?

Excellent point. And, as R' Rich Wolpoe posted:

> See Rema YD 1
> "Kol d'efshar levarurei m'varinan"

Whatever we *can* clarify, we *do* clarify. (That Rema is not talking about food ingredients, but about who is qualified to be a shochet. Still, it's a great sound bite.) Of course, the limits of what we can practically research will differ in different circumstances. For example, even in the organized and regulated markets of major cities, it's just not practical to supervise apples the way we do apple juice. We *do* have the clout to supervise the juice, and to ensure that it is packaged with a hechsher, which we can rely on because the government has an interest in protecting us from fraud, and prosecuting the frauders.

But it was not always like this. And in many places, it is still not like this. If someone leaves Brooklyn or Bnei Brak to do kiruv in Eastern Europe, should he insist that every single thing he eats must be labeled with the symbol of a heimishe hechsher? I don't think so. Rather, "Kol d'efshar levarurei m'varinan", and he should find out what the local situation is like.

And that's what we mean by the "European model". Not that Europeans are any more meikil than the Americans or Israelis, chalilah, but only that the limits of "Kol d'efshar levarurei m'varinan" are very different, simply because we have less market clout in Europe. So the rabanim do their research and make their lists, without any formal hashgacha. Because "Kol d'efshar levarurei m'varinan".

Some products have always had a hechsher, or equivalent thereof: meat, wine, milk, cheese. And as we said above, some products are still generally accepted as not needing a hechsher. I would be very curious to see a study which would analyze the transition from then to now. What sort of products and got a hechsher very early in the game, and which sort of products are more recent?

For example, I remember when Nabisco cookies got their hechsher about 13 years ago; there were articles in the newspapers about how they would have become kosher sooner, but the food science was not yet advanced enough to provide them with the qualities they were looking for without animal-based ingredients. Those articles also pointed out that the growing kosher market - and the growing vegetarian market - gave Nabisco the incentive they needed to do the research for these advances.

That makes sense, but I can't help wondering: why is it that the kosher consumer ate Hershey's chocolate without a hechsher all the way into the 1980s, but wanted a hechsher on Coca-Cola back in the 1930s?

Akiva Miller

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