[Avodah] The Scope of the "7 Mitzvos d'Rabbanan"

[rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com]

RAM
> The Maggid Mishnah's actual words are: "Kach kasuv b'Seder Rav Amram,
> v'chen hiskimu kol ha'acharonim z"l." In my view this falls far short
> of something like "Rav Amram tiken bracha al ner Shabbos".

> RRW seems to be interpreting the Maggid Mishnah to mean that until Rav
> Amram's time, no bracha was said on Ner Shabbos. I do not see that from
> this source. All I see from here is that there is no sefer older than Rav
> Amram which *documents* the saying of this bracha. It is quite possible
> that the bracha was established long before Rav Amram, perhaps even long
> before the Mishna, but we don't have any record of it.

Look it's MM's job to find the most authoritative [usuually earliest]
source! And if he Could credit it to Mishnah or Talmud he Would have. It
MIGHT have preceded Rav Amram Gaon, but stay tuned...

[I have some historical data to bring to bear this out but here I can
stay in the box]

Talmud
Sheiltos
Behag
Rif

All have brachah on Ner Hanukkkah
YET
NONE have brachah on Ner Shabbos!

WHY?

Now, Silence from ONE source is perhaps not proof positive OTOH
Silence from that collective is aisi solid indication.

Ein kan M'komo but the TUR orach hayyin 263 says yeish omrim ein
l'vareich.. Ayein sham. EG: R"T has to prove that chova triggers a
brachah for ner shabbas but chovav does NOT trigger brachah for mayyim
acharonim.

Here's another point:

Behag:
Upon Lighting candles one accepts Shabbos

Mordechai:
Upon BRACHAH of Lighting candles one accepts Shabbos

Notice this shift, it dovetails with BeHag not knowing about that brachah!

As far as Post-talmud brachos see Ta"z Orach Hayyim 46 re: "hannosein
laya'eif ko'ach" and how he treats the Ro"Sh here. It's highly informative
about my positions of post-talmudic "policies", too - and as Ta"z answers
the steera in the Ro"Sh, so too would I suggest that this applies to
the Ro"Sh on g'zeiros.



Now, I realize this all sounds radical, but it's important to get
the valence of 7 derabbana's accurately and not retrofit our minhag
ho'olam NOW to presume it's any earlier than we know for certain. This
is "hazakkah d'hashta" thinking. Since WE do it, that's the way it's
always done!

However, note that on NishmaBlog I started a series of "what's the
earliest source" and bracha on Ner Shabbos is in line for a post.

KT
RRW
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile