[Avodah] Seeing Policies Everywhere

[rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com]

Soap Box:
    OK since many in the Chevra are uptight [I think unreasonably so]
    with my use of g'zeira so Mipnei Darchei Shalom I will now use
    POLICY where POLICY might include
	Bans
	Standards
	Policies of qehillos, institutions etc.
End-soap-box

Offline we've had a great discussions, I cannot possibly encapsulate them all

Here's an interesting heirarchy
I'l go left to right concerning POLICY re: College
YU: Required lechatchila
Ner Yisroel: allowed/tolerated while @ Yeshiva. Not necessarily
    encouraged l'chatchila.
Lakewood: No college while @ Lakewood - [but AIUI some exemptions allowed
    while not there - my source is confidential - and I was told that
    RAK's policy ws no college WHILE LEARNING].
Other Hareidi-Hassidic communities: College is always passul.

So we have a range of sheetos re: the policy WRT college
__________________


Ploni I
> Rabbi Moshe Heinemann allows coffee makers.[On shabbos] Other poskim
> I've spoken to do not, seeing a slippery slope problem, but they admit
> there's no real issur

AISI just Like bicycles - a policy due to slippery slope but no real issur
[source EG Ben Ish Chay]

Ploni II
Re: my nomenclature of local g'zeiros
[Editorial: I was hoping somone would defend this on list, but I'll take
what I can get! ;-)]

> Anyone who reads the second half of the Rambam's hakdama knows you're not making it up. 

> However, it could be argued that the rambam was talking about his theory
> that the world is now split up into distinct Beis Din jurisdictions,
> not stam each moreh horaah on his own initiative.

The reisha matches  my point
The Seifa addresses RAMiller"s issue of the SCOPE of Authority
EG if RRW uveis dinni banned smoking I'm saying as per reisha I have that purview
And as per seifa no one would heed it. ;-)

BUT OTOH RMF-Agudas Rabbanim did have some clout 
And even today Hassidic q'hilos and KAJ + Elisabeth, and Yeshivos still
behave using a q'hilah model.

Remember the POLICY banning ostentatious S'machos? [and fwiw as an
austere New Englander and a quasi- Yekke I heartily endorse this policy!]

Back to soap-box:
Policies L'migdar milsa imho are legit and positive. [Source Choshen
Mishpat 2] and to my hashqafa - superior to dochaq pisqei Halacha that
I fear engender cycnicism.



RZS: 
> Gelatin is a different issue, and gedolei haposkim did permit it (R
> Chaim Ozer, R Tzvi Pesach, Dayan Abramski, R Ovadia Yosef, etc.).

> In America the minhag [I call this policy] is not to pasken like that,
> out of respect for RMF and RAK; but in other countries many do,»

Here is my take 
    A The case above 
    B The case of no eruv in manhattan out of respect for RMF 
and 
    C No megillah reading by women for women @ Stern College out of
      respect for RYDS

Are all 
    1 Cases of Policy 
    2 not classic s'yaggim 
    3 therefore LEAST of my g'zeira like cases 
    4 still localized and not P'saq 

By localized and not P'saq I mean 

A The same Kashrus agency people might themselves consume Gelatin
  in Israel

B The same Rabbonim who adhere to no Manhattan Eruv might allow it in
  an island like Montreal [assuming it's not part of RMF's p'saq]

C Dr. Norman Lamm himself might permit women reading megillah for women
  outside of YU and not feel bound for k'vod RYDS

IOW they are not absolute P'saq but location or institution-bound policies
[to follow an old P'saq]

Summary: these are the LEAST g'zeira-like because there is AIUI no s'yag
or slippery-slope.

But the tzad hashaveh is there and they're not P'saq either in that they
are policy.

-- 

Now m'chabeir does use IIRC "v'chein haminhag v'ein l'shanos" on occasion
The Rema uses it more 

Palginan Dibbura 
"V'chein Haminhag" is an observation of existing practice 
"Ein l'shanos" might be a P'saq. But AISI it's a policy to keep that minhag 

Rema was successful for the most part but an intersting exception is about
washing. Before qiddush -- which the Hayei Adam still has [IE for all
EXCEPT the baal habbayyis] and Kitzur SA seems to no longer know about.

[IOW it was either location dependent or it simply went-out-of-business
during a 50 year period -- except for a subset of Yekkes]

KT 
RRW 
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