[Avodah] tzedaka priority

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 07:49:02AM -0800, Saul.Z.Newman at kp.org wrote:
: so the tenor  i hear is  it  is  mussar-ly  not  a great idea, and 
: occaisionally may fall into the issur of nekama category.

Well, that's at least my position, I'm not sure that's a general tenor.

:                                                            this is my 
: distinction of  positive vs  negative.
: so  using  concrete examples : 
...
: in the negative  direction  ,  one  might NEVER give  money to a kollel  ; 
: or  would  NEVER  give money to a yeshiva of a certain eidah.
: --- in this case ,  rMB  would hold  it to be  a poor  midah...

I don't agree with your turning my statement into action. Neqama (and
certainly my Mussar concerns) reflects why something is done, not what
is done.

For example:

Shimon needs a snowblower, goes to Levi, who refuses to lend it to him.
The next year, the positions are reversed -- Levi has a snowblower,
and it's Shimon who needs it. Levi refuses to lend it to Shim'on.

Scenerio 1: neqama
"Why should I lend it to him? He is a lousy neighbor who I know from
experience wouldn't do so for me?"

Scenario 2:
"I saw how he handled his snowblower, and I really can't afford risking
his breaking the blade on mine."

Similarly in your negative direction example -- one might never give
moey to a kollel or the yeshivos of a certain eidah because there is
always a pressing concern closer to one's home.

: now there is  one other  situation , which is  probably closer  to what 
: rMB  would  consider an issur tora.  that would  be  a particular  mossad 
: does a behavior/expresses an opinion  that  one NOW  finds out about, and 
: vigourously  disagrees with.  rMB would  hold , i think, that this would 
: now  be  an issur of nekama  to withhold  funds from .

That's more strongly than I put it. I would rather say there is need to
consult a poseiq, because there are questions of the issur neqamah to
be asked.

:    i think though  an alternate perspective  would be  that  that  mossad 
: now  becomes  assur to the disagreeing  individual, to the point  that 
: rather than holding  it's assur NOT to give to it  [as nekama] , it's now 
: assur to YES  give to it  [as krumkeit, punishment for bad behaviour, etc] 

I am not as likely to label a mossad that promotes Torah umitzvos
as wrong. Wrong for me, yes. But wrong in an objective sense? RYBS's
comments about his uncle's Zionism aside, don't you think that the point
was that funding the learning of Brisker Torah is funding the learning
of Brisker Torah? Regardless of one's differences with the yeshiva
in question?

It's not like any eidah found a way of living that has no problems
whatsoever. Living in the finitude of the real world means choosing
pros and cons. We all have the problems that we are prone to because
our derekh makes them more likely, we all have problems our derekh is
more likely to avoid.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Every second is a totally new world,
micha at aishdas.org        and no moment is like any other.
http://www.aishdas.org           - Rabbi Chaim Vital
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