[Avodah] What is a minhag?

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 04:38:17PM +0000, rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com wrote:
: All I am trying to say is that Minhag is a very general term and has
: very diferent meanings in different contexts - as Akiva himself seems
: to be saying.

: And those different meanings impose differing levels of chiyyuv, etc.

I thought this whole thing began by my trying to identify these specific
meanings, because RnTK spoke about something just being customary, not
minhag (or words to that sort).

You split it into
1- a pesaq that one community follows
2- other practices, not followed mishum halakhah.

I accepted this dichotomy, but don't think it goes far enough. I think
that there are
2a- minhagim that are binding
2b- minhagim that are optional; perhaps this is limited to minhag
    chassidus

Then there are
3- secular customs.

In which case, the original question is whether category three even
exists.

E.g. 1: Bet Yosef meat to a Sepharadi is in category 1. It's their pesaq,
and for Sepharadim it's ikar hadin. Glatt to someone from the south of
Eastern Europe is in category 2a, I would guess, since it's his entire
qehillah's practice. But they take qulos because they don't believe it's
ikar hadin. A Litzvak might follow glatt for pragmatic reasons (can't
find a non-glatt shechitah he is comfortable with) or at most as 2(b)
a minhag chassidus.

E.g. 2: Maaser kesafim, depending on shitah, is de'oraisa, derabbanan,
minhag or a hanhagah tovah. If in the latter category (2b), then in the
Vaad 4 Aratzos, where the qehillah established a tax of 10%, was that
also a secular custom (simultaneously 2b and 3)? Or is it inherently
binding anyway -- that the whole religious vs secular practice thing is
inherently alien to Yahadus?

On a different chiluq (types of 2, rather than e.g. 2's implications
about whether a Jewish community's customs could ever be secular):

I used the QSA about automatic nedarim to question whether the difference
between category 2a and 2b, since he seems to say that practices that
are meichamas siyag uperishus can create a neder unless you explicitly
decide "beli neder". This would appear to mean that practices done
to add hislahavus, including our Qabbalah derived practices, would
be in category 2b, since they are not to avoid sin through accident,
habit (these two being reasons for a siyag) or irresistible temptation
(otherwise avoided through perishus).

However, this would make the pattern by which we wash neigl vasr or
before hamotzi non-binding, and I find that conclusion hard to believe.

Is it possible my definition of perishus isn't the same as R'
Ganzfried's? Or does someone have a different possibility?

But in short, to me this thread was about binding vs non-binding
(non-pesaq) minhagim vs secular customs -- how do we define them, and
do all three categories exist?

Note that this is a variant on our perennial "what is a chumrah"
discussion.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             You will never "find" time for anything.
micha at aishdas.org        If you want time, you must make it.
http://www.aishdas.org                     - Charles Buxton
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