[Avodah] mei marom

[Samuel Svarc]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Zev Sero <zev at sero.name> wrote:
> Arie Folger wrote:
>
>> However, I haven't seen anyone dispute the Ramban's
>> idea that sin can change previous assurances, especially to
>> individuals.
>>
>> So, if the Roman would have continued living "a long life of wine,
>> women, song, and killing Jews," once "he died and showed up at BD shel
>> Maalah, clutching his `Get Out of Hell Free´ card," BD shel ma'ala
>> would answer "expired through your subsequent grave sins."
>
> I'll see your Ramban and raise you Gemara Rosh Hashana 4a, and Rashi
> "kan beyisrael".   Even if such excuses work with Jews, they don't
> work with goyim.

As Rashi in that gemorah clearly is referencing the chillul haShem
that would come out of a non-Jew's misunderstanding, it just as
clearly means in this world, thus removing any and all connection to
our case were the "payment" would be in the world to come. Fail one.
Furthermore, "read it again", the gemora doesn't say a word of the
non-Jew getting a better deal because he wouldn't understand, but
rather that his flawed understanding will cause him even more harm in
that his deed is missing righteous intent. So in our case it would
mean that the executioner's act would have been even more commendable
had it been performed by a Jew. It is "pure fantasy" to somehow see
from here any "hint" that the executioner could have gone on to a life
of sin; if anything could be learned out from this gemorah it would be
to the detriment of a sinful executioner. Fail two.

KT,
MSS