[Avodah] kosher lists

[Arie Folger]

I wrote:
> So, no, not everything needs a hekhsher, but yes, one needs a certain
> amount of expertise to figure out what can be relied upon and what
> not. Consult your local kashrut experts.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Prof. Levine <llevine at stevens.edu> wrote:
> I suppose that people who live in these countries get used to this
> situation, but to me it sounds most complicated and fraught with danger.

True. But it is not so difficult to learn about the bog unproblematic
food groups. European kosher lists will sometimes tell you what is
unproblematic and what to look out for in the unproblematic kinds of
products. Everything else needs to be somehow supervised (incl. but
not limited to kosher lists and printed hekhsherim).

I'd like to make one more comment on some earlier thoughts I posted.
After I explained the shortcomings of CIP processes ("cleaning in
place"), and stressed how they don't usually reach the upper limits of
yad soledet bo, quite some posters have discussed what the temperature
of yad soledet bo is.

The truth is, that there is no consensus on any exact temperature, and
a range is always used. When the 'hashash is a deoraita, a larger
range is definitely used. On derabbanans, some/many kashrut agencies
will accept a smaller range.

Anyway, what I didn't write, but would be obvious to many, is that we
are not content with yad soledet bo for kashering. We want
lekhat'hilah rotea'h (100C or 212F) or at least that the CIP reaches
the usual highest operating temperature. I only mentioned yad soledet
bo to explain how low CIP temperatures usually are, and to weaken the
argument that we can rely on the CIP detergents as devarim hapogmim.
If the distasteful (even abrasive) cleaning product isn't even hot,
how would it render pagum the beli'ot that were absorbed hot?

So, regular, unmodified CIP is usually not good enough to assume that
lines were kashered.

When I dealt with factories that were investigating getting certified
or listed, I requested that the CIP temperature be raised.

There is no position in the above regarding stam keilim einam benei
yoman, which I happily let you discuss ad infinitum.


An Avodah moderator asked me why the above belongs on Avodah and not
Areivim, so I am specifying:
: Targum Folger: The follwing are the Torah topics addressed in my post:
: The whole discussion of yad soledes bo not being the most important
: factor in determining whether or not keilim are kosher. Lekhat'hilah
: we go for roteach. And that abrasive products won't remove beli'ot
: shel reti'hah unless they are heated, too, which is where yad soledet
: bo discussions become important.


Kol tuv & good vokh,
--
Arie Folger,
Latest blog posts on http://ariefolger.wordpress.com/
* UK Commander Challenges Goldstone Report
* On the Stereotypical Jew
* Wieso “ruhte” G”tt?
* Wir sind für die Evolution!



-- 
Arie Folger,
Latest blog posts on http://ariefolger.wordpress.com/
* UK Commander Challenges Goldstone Report
* On the Stereotypical Jew
* Wieso “ruhte” G”tt?
* Wir sind für die Evolution!