[Avodah] Yom Tov Sheni for Olim LeReget to the Beit Mikdash

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 06:06:33PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
: See Rambam Kiddush Hachodesh 5:3.  "From when did all Israel start to
: use this calculation [which was passed down from Moshe miSinai]?  From
: the end of chachmei hatalmud, at the time when EY was destroyed and
: there was no beis din kavua left there.  But in the days of chachmei
: hamishneh, and also in the days of chachmei hatalmud until the days of
: Abaye and Rava, they relied on the keviut of EY."

: He doesn't name Hillel; perhaps Hillel's predecessor instituted a
: formula based on the Halacha Lemoshe Misinai, and Hillel refined it?

Or until Abayei veRava, being the cutoff named in the next line. The
qevi'us of EY was until them, at which point "hischilu kol Yisrael
lechasheiv cheibon zeh".

This is also the period in which Bar Hedyah and Ravin show that lo
adu rosh was in play, but still under debate. (As I noted then, BH
was poteir chalomos for Abayei and Rava, Ravin was a son of R' Adda,
making him Rabbah and Kaylil's brother, and thus Abayei [ben Kaylil,
raised by Rabbah]'s uncle.)

A more relevant quote of the Rambam probably 5:2, "This matter is halakhah
leMoshe miSinai: when there is a Sanhderin, qov'in al pi re'iyyah, and
when there is no Sanhedrin there, qov'in al cheshbon zeh". He then denies
the possibility that every re'iyah was actually on the calculated day.

Moreinu haRav Meir Simchah haKohein miDvinsk (as my grandfather a"h
consistently called him with such awe and reverence) writes on 5:3.
The OS ties the Rambam to RH 21a (Rava fasts for 2 days, and one time
they made a full Elul -- proving his precaution), Sanhedrin 12a
(Rava is told that the nasi wanted to add an Adar), and Taanis 29b
(Abayei had a Friday 9 beAv).

So I would think we now have two shitos:

R' Chananeil / R' Bachayei: we used an algorithm from day 1, this being
    the essence of the mitzvah
Rambam: Until Abayei veRava, which could be as late as Hillel Nesi'ah,
    if they set the calendar up toward the beginning of his nesi'us.
    However, the Rambam might have held that Rav Ashi veRavina closed
    the Sanhedrin, not R' Gamliel IV.

Also, it appears that R Bachayei can't presume we were given a particular
algorithm. Because if we already used it since miSinai, how do we have
mishnayos and gemaros that don't assume lo ad"u rosh? However, the Rambam
says "cheshbon zeh" is miSinai, which he can because those shitos could
have been for al pi re'iyah periods.

Which also mitigates the Ohr Samei'ach's proof, since it shows that the
current cheshbon wasn't used in the days of Abayei veRava, not that NO
cheshbon was.

Also, according to the Rambam, there was no taqanah at the end of the
Sanhedrin, so the Sanhedrin that returns to al pi re'iyah only needs to
be capable of receiving eidim, and no issue of whether it must be gadol
mimenu bechokhmah uveminyan to end the previous taqanah. In fact, this
is preferable to falling back to calculation.

Whereas R' Bachaye would require al pi re'iyah as a pro-forma on the
computed date for Rosh Chodesh, and a beis din gadol mimenu bechokhmah
uveminyan to produce a more precise calculation and fix the drift
of Pesach.

I am glad I didn't let the topic close with your and RRW's assumption that
"common knowledge" was necessarily correct. This is far more interesting.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Strength does not come from winning. Your
micha at aishdas.org        struggles develop your strength When you go
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