[Avodah] Tz'nius

[Meir Shinnar]

RRW
> Ein hachi nami
> BUT
> I will echo Micha. There are indeed NO legal bounds being crossed here
>
> Thus:
>> I haven't seen, nor have I heard of our poskim and other leaders,
>
> Is in this context a red herring
>
> Rather - this is an issue of machshava, Mussar and Dei'os (Rambam's term)

If our poskim and leders have not followed it, it means that they
don't consider it an issue of machshava, Mussar and Deios either.....
That it the problem - I am assuming that our real rabbinic leaders are
bound in their behavior just by legal bounds, but also by machshava,
Mussar and Deios...

> And what do sifrei mussar say?  Some seriously object!!
atually they deal with a different issue....
> EG
> R Chaim Vital Shaarei Qedusha Part 1 shaar 5 (p. 24 in my edition)
>
> "V'sivrach b'chol kochacha min haserarah (BTW it's a sin not a shin)
> haqoveres es b'aleha!"
> Tr;
> "Escape with all your might from office-holding (or perhaps from
> officiating)- that buries its masters or owners."

For RRW to cite Chaim Vital is a real chiddush.  However, let us
define the issue better, because your examples are not relevant..

The issue we are discussing is not serara (and the notion that power
corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely has Jewish echoes),
nor the pitfalls of pride, nor not wanting kavod.
There is no dispute about that (albeit the issue of serara is tempered
by the realization of the necessity of it)

RHS and RMB are making a far more sweeping claim - that fulfilling any
public function is inherently lack of tzeniut, and is therefore
automatically problematic to be avoided unless unavoidable or there is
a good reason why you have to do it.
> How about "us'na es harrabanus".
authority and serara are different than public functions.....
>
> Again a RY who Honors a Chassan by reading his Kesubbah is not violating
> this, because his office bestows honor on the Chassan-kallah

RHS makes his point about tzeniut in his talk about women reading
ketuba at a wedding.  If a kalla asks her teacher to read the ketuba
at her wedding, and the hatan agrees that he would be honored, why is
that different??

Again, while there is large musar literature on kavod, and avoiding
honorifics, etc - there is no litrature that having a public role
violates ones tzeniut - and should only be done if necessary.

Meir Shinnar