[Avodah] inconceivable-- Ben Sorer uMoreh

[Rich, Joel]

The Sages said "a wayward and rebellious son never was and never will be," but R. Yehonatan said, "I saw one, and sat on his grave." As a rule, Talmudic controversies center on questions of law and not of fact. R. Yehonatan's first-hand testimony was certainly reliable; on what basis, then, did the other Sages dispute him?
The answer is that they referred to the juridical aspects of the rebellious son, while R. Yehonatan testified as to the reality of the phenomenon: "I saw one, and sat on his grave!" He had seen a child who matched the Torah's description, although G-d killed him and not a court.
This explains the identical disagreement, ibid., concerning the apostasized city described in Devarim 13:13-19: the Sages said it "never was and never will be," while R. Yehonatan said, "I saw it, and sat on its ruins." It is impossible that the destruction of such a city by Jewish force of arms could have escaped the notice of everyone except R. Yehonatan, just as it is inconceivable that the Roman authorities would have allowed such an action to take place. Rather, R. Yehonatan testified as to the phenomenon: there indeed had been such a city, which was subsequently destroyed in whatever manner.

(From New Interpretations on the Parsha--Ktav, 2001)
Rabbi Y.H.Henkin
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\Nice pshat but based on what?  the but in the original discussion seems to say they were disagreeing (I agree that I have never understood the disagreement on fact and the oddity of both involving the same R' Yehonatan)
KT
Joel Rich


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