[Avodah] Tzeni'us and gender roles

[Chana Luntz]

I wrote:
> > Now of course the modern approach is that one should delay 
> marriage, 
> > at least until one has had time to complete university and 
> hence have 
> > (for both parties to the marriage) the tools to earn a reasonable 
> > parnassa without having to deal with the birth and raising 
> of children 
> > during that period of study.  What is your view on this?  
> This change 
> > is not, like the legal age of marriage, forced upon us in quite the 
> > same way.  Some of the financial scandals, however, that you are 
> > decrying, certainly risk being aggravated, do they not, if people 
> > marry before they have a chance of completing university, 
> and hence risk struggling to provide a parnassa for their
> > families when they have them?    Pros? cons?

And RDR replied:
 
> While I basically agree with the thrust of this post, I'm 
> puzzled that you characterize this approach as "modern".  See H. Deoth
5:11.

The modern aspect of this approach is  the "for both parties to the
marriage".  The Rambam is,  when he mentions "adam" only refering to the
male of the species.  In many societies that indeed was the model - in fact
as late in my husband's parent's circles in Egypt that was indeed the model
- there was typically an age gap of at least 10 years between the husband
and wife, because the husband needed to build up his parnassa first, but a
woman needed to be married off as soon as possible.  And then he molds her.

The aspects of modernity that I was referring encompasses both the idea that
women are expected to bring in a significant portion of the parnasa of a
marriage, and also that this level of age discrepency within marriage (and
the power embalance that that contains) is not to be encouraged.  A society
where a woman might reasonably expect to be married off to a man who is at
least her mother's age is not a modern society.

It is of course an alternative model to consider in RMB's grappling with
modernity.  Indeed my mother-in-law thought that that is precisely what her
sons ought to have been doing, and was not keen (should we say) on her sons
dating women of around their own age.  My husband certainly didn't listen -
but one way of dealing with the problem I have identified is to go back to
precisely this model.

> David Riceman

Regards

Chana