[Avodah] תשובה: תשובה: aveilus of bein hamezarim on shabbos

[Shlomo Pick]

Have no idea what rabbi walpoe wants except for 2 things.
1. not fully quoting me:
Here is the full quote:
>>eg. Chasam sofer, vol. I, no 158, it's clear that the minhag of changing
or not changing dress was a communal affair and clothing was not an
"individual based minhag". then again in frankfort and other place they
didn't come to shul on shabbos in shorts, baseball hats, red pants, white
blazers, sneakers, sandals without socks, and who knows what not.
2. he never looked up the chassam sofer which reports what minhag Frankfort
was on Shabbat chazon.
Re minhagei hagrah. Many of his changes in the tefilla were an attempt to go
back to the original minhag of lita as found in the official siddur of the 4
lands and were not original.
As far as communities today, I listed the dress customs above found in many
an orthodox congregation - if not shabbos at shacharis than by mincha, if
there is a minyan. Of course in boro park and Flatbush and deal there may
other customs of dress. Then again, some rabbis in these communities may be
getting different dress codes. (micha, or mr. editor, you can strike this
last paragraph - snip, snip)
shlomo
-----הודעה מקורית-----
מאת: rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com [mailto:rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com] 
נשלח: Sunday, July 26, 2009 7:33 PM
אל: Shlomo Pick
עותק: Micha
נושא: Re: תשובה: aveilus of bein hamezarim on shabbos


Plz post:

RSP:
"eg. Chasam sofer, vol. I, no
158, it's clear that the minhag of changing or not changing dress was a
communal affair and clothing was not an "individual based minhag". then
again in frankfort"

Having spent about 20 years in frankfort am Hudson :-) let me say this

Frankfort does not change many minhaggim

Chasam Sofer was from Frankfort

Ergo ChS probably changed virtually zero minhaggim (I'm sure there are a few
anomalies)

The Ma'aseh Rab outlines 302 cases of minhag haGRA.  Virtually all were
revisions of Minhag Ashkenaz

Arguing from an ultra-Traditionalist ChS and and ultra-Revisonist (Viz. GRA
and hassidim) in the same thread is like burning the candle at both ends for
me.

True Rema et. Al. resisted changing clothes for shabas hazzon but I don't
know ANY community - even Breuer's) that practices this today.

If you want to divorce books 100% from poq chazei mai ama davar and rely on
CD-Rom searches alone, then you have a point.

However, even the Maharil, Rema, ChS school does evolve.  EG many yekkes do
NOT wash before Qiddush even though in the Tur's time (and even Chayei
Adam!) This was standard practice.

So in the world of reality MOST american congrgations sing lecha dodi to eli
tziyyon and iirc this is rav Henkin's sheeta too.  And they sing eicha esa
to eicha niggun (although Breuer's iirc does not)
And haftaras hazzon is done primarily to Eicha - even in the Yeshiva World.

True, minhag hagra dominates Israel and so standard ashkenazic practices
have gone undergroud
However, imposing that outisde of Israel makes no sense to me.


And if I were in Israel I would probably join Rav Hamburger's hevra or set
up a similar chevra myself

KT
RRW
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