[Avodah] Tzeni'us and gender roles

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R"n Chana Luntz had written:
> well I don't know if it is general Sephardi culture, or the
> Egyptian/Syrian Sephardi culture he comes from, or general
> Arab culture or what - but it is desperately impolite, if
> offered food (or maybe it is seconds of food, I am not quite
> sure) to accept first time, you have to say no, and the
> hostess has to insist, 

R' Meir Shinnar wrote:
> my father has a similar story.  When he was a (literally)
> starving student at the Technion, his one real meal during
> the week was if he was invited to a meal for shabbat. When
> the hostess offered seconds, there were, depending on
> where in Europe (in Haifa his hosts were all Ashkenazim)
> came from, two possible appropriate responses.

Anyone with additional info about the origins of this practice are urged to contribute to this discussion. These stories could go either way: Either the practices of the Gemara were continued by Jews both in Europe and the Middle East, or perhaps they were long-standing universal practices which were forgotten (or abandoned) relatively recently.

If it was standard only among the Jews, then it would appear to be a continuation of a Minhag Yisrael which had been specified in Brachos 34a. But if it was common among the non-Jews too, then it would not be Minhag Yisrael, but rather merely Minhag Haolam, and I'm not aware that we need any particular allegiance to it.

Even having been mentioned in the Gemara, the Gemara might have been merely DEscriptive, *describing* what is expected and required in *that* place and time, rather than being PREscriptive, *defining* what is expected and required in *all* places and times.

Akiva Miller

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