[Avodah] Being Friendly

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:36am -0400, Aryeh Herzig wrote to Areivim:
: The Gemara Berachot 43[b]:
: Six things are a "Gnai" ...for a Talmid Chacham....
: 
: (among them) to converse with a woman in the Shuk...

And there's it's "yesapeir im ishah", also not the more straightforward
"yedabeir".

I think the awkward turn of phrase really is to make sure not to include
nidon didan, just saying "Hello". It's like generalizing "shelo yistakeil
adam be'ishah na'ah, ve'afilu penuyah" into "lir'os".

EhE 21:6 is most instructive: Ein sho'alim beshalom ishah kelal, afily
A"Y shaliach... (then the SA added afilu AY baalah, but the nosei keilim
argue about that). Seems to be open-and-shut that my earlier conjecture
about "sichah" not including saying "hello" was wrong.

The Pischei Teshuvah asks on this from Elishah's conversation with the
Shunamit. The Avnei Mishpat answers that this is because her arrival
was at an atypical time, and Elisha's asking what was wrong is not
chibah-enducing.

The Ritva (Qiddushin 70b) says the issur is only on someone who can't
withstand his yeitzer. Similarly the AhS (se'if 8) holds that it's mutar
if the people *and the language* isn't risking chibah.

The Maharam Shik is meiqil based on Tosafos (Qiddush 81a), which
explicitly says that someone whose thoughts are pure and lesheim shamayim
can ask shalom.

The TE 5:2 says that since such conversation is normal today, there is
no cheshash of chibah.

But to reiterate the AhS, since that's what my rebbe, RDL, defined as
/the/ guide for normative halakhah -- in Litta the norm (se'if 9) was to
greet one's hostess, and they held there was (usually) no issur. "Aval,
lomar lah 'tzafra tava' ukeh"g nir'eh de'ein issur." (se'if 8)

It's for this reason I guessed that Beruriah was accusing R' Yosi
haGelili, or perhaps just taunting him, of having a crush on her.
One can't say the extra words of "be'eizeh derekh neileikh leLud"
were derekh chibah, and yet the AhS et al have no problem being
meiqilim.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "The most prevalent illness of our generation is
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