[Avodah] validity of ketubahs if .....

[Yitzhak Grossman]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:27:09 +0100
Jonathan Dickson <Jonathan.Dickson at blplaw.com> wrote:

> I think the comments regarding "signing" the ketuba are a bit of a red herring. The chatan accepts the obligations of the ketuba when he makes a kinyan on it, and then hands it to his kalla, bifnei eidim. I suspect (but no source for this) that the only point of having eidim sign the ketuba is so they can be traced later if necessary.

There is actually a major dispute among the Poskim whether a written
kesuvah is required in the event of a kinyan having been executed in
the presence of witnesses (see SA EH 66:1).  We are stringent and
require, at least le'hat'hilah and shelo be'sha'as he'dehak, a written
kesuvah, which must be Halachically valid.

> After all, if I make a verbal commitment to you in front of eidim, no written document is necessary to enforce that commitment (under either English or Jewish law) - you would just bring those eidim to court/bet din and their testimony would be enough to establish my obligation.

True, but not necessarily to the point.  In fact, the kesuvah is
obligatory even without any kinyan or written kesuvah, as it is a tenai
Beis Din (Mishnah Kesuvos 51a), but we still require kinyan or a
document, to ensure semichas da'as of the woman (see Kesuvos 7a Rav Ami
shari le'mival, 56b R. Meir omer kal ha'pohes, Tosfos s.v. ein osin,
s.v. aval, and 82b tanya nami hachi).

Yitzhak
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