[Avodah] RE AMALEK-CHILDREN OF HAMAN IN BNEI BRAK

[Zev Sero]

What is this in reference to?  I never received the original message,
and RSB doesn't say who wrote it, or when.

simon benloulou wrote:
>>> Does it take care of the problem of how could Haman's descendants 
>>>have learned Torah in Bnai Brak?  If they were Amalekites shouldn't  
>>>they have been put to death?

>>I don't know. What's the status of an Amalekite who becomes a ger?

Why would it be different than any other ger?

 
> Suppose the beit din that does the giyur doesn't know he's an Amalekite.
> Suppose he himself doesn't know he's an Amalekite.
> 
> Can an individual kill an Amalekite, or is it something that has to
> be done either by a beit din or in a time of war? What are the exact
> parameters? If I see an Amalekite, and somehow it's 100% certain that
> he's an Amalekite, am I required/allowed to blow his brains out? Do I
> have that authority?

Of course not.  An individual can kill a rodef or a moser; a goel hadam
can kill the person who was convicted of his relative's manslaughter, if
he finds him outside the ir miklat.  But where would an ordinary person
get the authority to just walk up to someone in the street and kill him?
If you think someone is chayav mita, take him to a beit din.  If you see
a nation of Amalek that exists, go to the Melech and complain.

As for an individual Amaleki, who is going about his business and not
harming anyone, where would even the Melech get the authority to kill
him?  Even an organised Amaleki nation must reject terms of surrender
before it can be wiped out (Melachim Umilchamotehem 6); surely an
individual is entitled to the same right!


> The halacha is we dont accept geirim from Amalek.

Since when?  Where is such a halacha to be found?  Not in Rambam, not
in Shulchan Aruch.


>  rav Tzadok Hacohen milublin zsl addresses this point in passing and
> concludes that its likely that these children were the product of an
> amalekite raping a jewish girl....seems like the simplest answer
> and therefore probably true

Why would such children be different than Amalekim who converted,
perhaps before a BD of hedyotot, if the organised BD would not accept
them (for which I see no evidence)?  Are they more Jewish than such
converts and their offspring?


Jay F Shachter wrote:
 
>> The halacha is we dont accept geirim from Amalek.
>
> Contrary to what the above-cited poster wrote, this is not an
> undisputed halakha

Is it even a disputed halacha?  As I said above, no trace of it is
to be found in the Rambam or Shulchan Aruch.


> and anyone who claims that it is should at least
> attempt to reconcile it with the plain meaning of 2 Samuel 1:13, which
> the above poster does not do.

That pasuk alone is not a problem.  The plain meaning of "ger" in that
pasuk is "alien", not "convert".


-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher