[Avodah] Q re tonight's RYReisman shiur on the chamah

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R' Micha Berger wrote:
> Cycles don't have an intrinsic "start". There is no meaning
> to "although the sun and moon may have been created in
> Tishrei, the beginning of their cycles was actually the
> equinox before - but it was a 'theoretical' equinox."
> Without it being the actual time of creation, what makes
> one point in a circle (oval, really) the beginning over
> another?

I suppose you are correct that a cycle doesn't have an *intrinsic* beginning point. But on the other hand, I think we can say that it does have a *specific* beginning point, and that this specific point can be defined by halacha, or agreed by convention, or both.

The cycle of the moon does have a specific beginning point, as reflected in the halachos of the calendar. Granted that this point is a function of three bodies (moon, earth, sun) rather than just two (the orbiter and the orbited), but still, in the context of halacha and the calendar, it *is* possible to say that the moon's cycle has a specific beginning point, and that the moon was created at some point other than beginning of that sycle.

The sun is a bit different. I'm not sure, but I think the four tekufos of the solar year are conventions, designed for agricultural purposes, such as when to pray for Tal Umatar. It is entirely reasonable for these conventions to conventions to be based on the equinoxes and solstices. Having agreed upon that convention, it *is* possible to say that the sun's cycle has a specific beginning point, and that the sun was created at some point other than beginning of that cycle.

On the other hand...

> Besides, the idea is a return of the sun to where it was
> created. Not to where it was hypothetically. How is one
> commemorating maaseh bereishis by commemorating a
> hypothetical pre-bereishis event?

Now *this* piece of logic is unassailable. In my mind, at least. Very well put!

Akiva Miller

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