[Avodah] shatz saying things out loud a.k.a silent ga'al Yisrael

[D&E-H Bannett]

I've been more or less following the thread on the custom of 
the chazzan not saying ga'al Yisrael aloud in shacharit so 
as to avoid anyone saying amen. Mention was also made of it's 
somewhat less popular kid brother, not saying "ha-bocher b'amo 
Yisrael b'ahava" and "ohev 'amo Yisrael" out loud.  The 
first custom is to be somekh geula li-t'fila and the second 
to be somekh ahava to sh'ma'.



It was interesting that some posters insist that answering 
amen is altogether wrong as it is a hefsek while others 
insist that the b'rakhot should definitely be said aloud and 
amen answered - each with sources to back it up.  But what 
was most interesting was that what I awaited to see never 
appeared - how and why these two opinions developed.  So, 
here is my opinion.



The usual amen is indicates acceptance and agreement with 
the brakha, a "me-too" or "count me in". The idea that this 
is a hefsek is very peculiar.  When one person makes kiddush 
for a group answering "barukh hu uvarukh sh'mo" is a hefsek 
because this is a custom with no halakhic basis. If 
answering "amen" were a hefsek, those answering would not be 
yotzei yedei chovat kiddush.  Has anyone ever heard that, 
when one person makes a brakha to motzi others, they cannot 
answer Amen?



Let's look at something slightly related. The Gemara in 
Bavli Brakhot 45: states two opinions.

1. It is m'shubach to answer amen to one's own b'rakha.

2. It is m'guneh to answer amen to one's own b'rakha.



The contradiction is easily solved.  It is m'shubach in 
bonei Yerushalayim  (in birkat ha-mazon).  It is m'guneh in 
other brakhot.



The importance of one not saying amen to one's own b'rakha 
is shown in the halakhic instruction that when teaching a 
small child to make a b'rakha by having him repeat word 
after word, one should not say Amen when the child finishes 
as this would teach the child to say Amen himself.



But every Ashkenazic Jew does say a self-Amen in Bonei 
Yerushalayim.  Obviously, it is not a "me too" type of 
reply, and not a reply at all.



Let the Ashkenazi glance at the siddur of\a Sefaradi friend. 
There is a self Amen after Yishtabach. There is another at 
the end of shemoneh esrei  in ha-m'varekh et 'amo Yisrael 
ba-shalom.  There is one at the b'rakha melekh m'hulal 
ba-tishbachot at the end of hallel (but not in the same b'rakha 
in barukh she-amar).  Another self-Amen appears in Ma'ariv 
in shomer (et) 'amo Yisrael la'ad at the end of hashkivenu. 
Oh, of course, there is also one in Bonei Yerushalayim.



All have the same reason.  The Gemara states that bonei 
Yerushalayim is the end of the "official" birkat ha-mazon. 
Similarly, Yishtabach is the end of p'sukei d'zimra; 
Hamvarekh et 'amo Yisrael  is the end of shmoneh esrei; 
mekekh m'hulal ends Hallel, Hashkivenu ends "official" ma'ariv. 
The elf-amen is not an agreement of a reply to anything.  It 
is a signal that indicates the end of a chativa, a  single 
section or group of prayers.



To return, finally, to the original topic,  ga'al Yisrael in 
shacharit and ahava before sh'ma', let's look at some 
rishonim who talk about self-amens.



The Rashba, Rosh, Raviah, Or Zarua, Meiri, and others, 
mention self-amen mostly with respect  to  geula and ahava. 
Obviously, the others were accepted without question, but 
there was another opinion about these two.  The Or Zarua 
mentions the Yerushalmi as his source, but I couldn't find 
it, so it is probably no longer there.  The Rosh quotes the 
Rambam that one says a self amen only after a section of 
prayer that includes two b'rakhot.



Old siddurim:



Sa'adia Gaon has a self- amen in ahava but none in geula. 
Siddur Ha-g'onim of Shlomo ben Natan has a self-amen in 
geula but none in ahava.



Sa'adia considers ahava the end of the pre-sh'ma' section. 
It has two b'rakhot which is the minimum required by the 
Rambam for a section. Therefore it has a self amen. The 
post-sh'ma' segment has only one b'rakha, and so does not 
have a self amen.  In ma'ariv, there are at least two 
brakhot after the sh'ma so the final b'rakha before shmoneh 
esrei has a self amen.



 R' Shlomo ben Natan considers both the pre- and post- sh'ma 
brakhot. Together with the sh'ma' as a single section and, 
therefore, it has a self amen at ga'al Yisrael.  As Ahava is 
in the middle of a section, it doesn't get a self-amen.



Ashkenazim dropped all except the one mentioned in Gemara 
Brakhot.  Sefaradim retained all except those that were 
questionable.





Conclusion:



Self-Amens have nothing to do with answering a b'rakha but 
are signs of an ending. Whether the brakhot of geula and 
ahava  deserve a self-amen indicating a section end is 
questionable. As the need for such a signal is not that 
important, poskim decided that one should not say a 
self-amen at these two brakhot as it might impair the s'mikhat 
geula litfila or perhaps also ahava li-shma' or the 
separation or  the unity of both pre-and post sh'ma' b'rakhot. 
(See Saadia and Shlomo ben Natan above.) Over the 
generations, the concept of an end-signal Amen was forgotten 
and the "not saying amen" was interpreted as applying to the 
"me too" or count me in" type of amen, that of agreement or 
joining to yotzei yedei chova.



Logically, the koach of semikhat geula lit'fila can cancel 
only an amen atzmi but not an amen chova.



All the above is a historical story.  It is not a 
recommendation to change an established custom, neither that 
of ending ga'al Yisrael silently nor that of ending aloud to 
enable an Amen reply.



BTW, as a ba'al tefila, I end silently as I was taught many 
long years ago.  But, if I hear a chazan's ending of the 
brakha, I answer Amen.





k"t,



David