[Avodah] Din Moser

[Harvey Benton]

RZS wrote:
So they should know to be careful of him, of course.  If someone is a
danger to the public, how can you *not* warn people?

HB: Warning people is different than pronouncing him Chayav Mitah. You can warn people to stay away from him, but why put a death sententence out there on his head?

RZS: If in fact he holds that way, then the person's blood is muttar, so why
would it be on the dayan's head, or on anybody's?  On the contrary, maybe
someone will find himself in a situation where he can kill this person
without danger to himself.  

HB:  In this case, a major Rabbinic body (the RCC), refused to issue a ruling. (And if they had, I assume it
 wouldn't be publicly, if it
 involved a din of
 moser.)  What about Dina
 D'Malchuta Dina? 
 And a Chilul Hashem; people would say that even in a (pretty much fair) land (USA) of justice and laws, different religions could feel it appropriate to take matters into their own hands.  Accusations of Vigilante Justice and comparisons to Isalmic Hotheads would be forthcoming.

RZS: If it's proposed to actually kill the person then I believe it's customary
to assemble a BD of 23, if possible.  But I'm not aware of any halachic
requirement to do so, and it's certainly not required if no actual killing
is contemplated, but merely informing people of his status.

HB:  Since when is a halacha paskened with no intent to carry it out?  I am not talking about Beit Hamikdash halacha paskening but inyanim that currently affect us.
And even if no actual actions were planned to implement the psak, someone could take matters into his own hand.  Under USA law, would the Rav be guilty of
 incitement?

RZS: What has this got to do with a sanhedrin?  The din of rodef and moser
is up to each individual to determine.  When one sees someone about to
kill someone else, and one has a clear shot at him, one doesn't stop to
ask a shayla.

HB:  Aren't the dins of rodef and moser different?  Also and again, I would ask about Dina D'Malchuta:  Certain cases, such as child molesting must be reported, at least by hospital workers, etc., to the authorities.  If a frum doctor or therapist comes accross a case of child molesting, or intent to physically harm another, etc., are you suggesting he/she should not follow the law (possibly lose his/her license, and allow harm to others) and not report the issue (because of din moser)?

RZS: "Fact" and "possibly" contradict each other.  And who says it was wrong?
Had it not been crystal clear that killing Rabin would only make things
worse, had it been reasonable to
 assume that killing him would stop the
slaughter of Jews instead of increasing it, would it not have been right
to kill him?

HB:  I do not know, but please recall the case of the Alta Lena, Gedalya ben Achikam, and others.  I think that such matters (Jew v Jew) should not be taken lightly; nor by a single Rav or individual.  If a qualified Beis Din actually agrees on such a psak, I believe things should be done quietly.... HB


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