[Avodah] answering Amen to various brachot

[Shlomo Pick]

In an Areivim post concerning the issue of answering Amen I wrote the
following:

 

>I remember hearing from m"vr HaRav Herschel Schachter that answering 

>Amen to a bracha is not only an agreement to the bracha itself, but how 

>it came about. He then criticized those chuppot where there are 

>talmidei chachamim present but the honors go to the chasan's friend, 

>cousin, etc.  Under those circumstances, I remember Rav Schachter 

>saying that one should not answer amen to the brachot, nay, it was 

>forbidden to answer Amen, for the bracha came about in a manner that 

>was mezalzel betalmidei chachamim.

>I have seen this take place, and with Talmidei chachamim amiteeyim, 

>they were never phased by this, as their very essence is humility.  And 

>thus the zilzul has been increased.

>Bebirchot hatorah

>Shlomo Pick

 

To this I received the following response and which was also posted in
areivim:

>I lived in Elizabeth, NJ from 1968 to 1974. Rav Teitz regularly came on
Sunday mornings to daven in the Bais Yitzchok shul on Bellevue Street. (For
those who do not know much about Elizabeth, Rav P. M Teitz, ZT"L, was THE
rov of the city. He was the rov of the 4 Orthodox shuls in Elizabeth. See
http://tinyurl.com/63gryd for more about Rav Teitz and his amazing
accomplishments in building Orthodoxy in Elizabeth, NJ.)

 

>One Sunday morning an obviously Sefardi fellow whom I had never seen before
was davening for the Amud. After a moment or two Rav Teitz stopped him and
said, "You can pronounce any word the way you want except for HaShem's name.
You cannot say A--nai (that is, pronouncing a kamatz as if it were a pasach
as some Sefardim do.). You must say A--noi (pronouncing the kamatz with an
Ashkenaz pronunciation.) Your pronunciation is Chol for us and we cannot
answer Amen.

 

>Since then I am often in doubt when some Israelis or a "real" Sefardi daven
for the Amud. Should I answer Amen or not? Usually I do not answer Amen.

 

>Not so long ago the fellow who davened Maariv in a shul not far from me
used the Sefardic pronunciation of HaShem's name. I brought this to the
attention of the Rov, and he said he would look into it. I told him the
story about Rav Teitz. He has yet to get back to me.

 

My answer to this was: "sufficiently Torah related to warrant the extra
attention and wider audience of Avodah." And so I am presenting it here:

 

When Rav Teitz was the rav of Elizabeth, and I presume that then most of the
minyanim and pronunciation was ashkenzis, as was in the 50s, 60s and perhaps
early 70s.  Nonetheless, there are teshuvot from rav kook zt"l Orach
Mishpat, no. 16,17; Seridei Eish 1:6; ziz Eliezer 7:28 dealing with the
issues with the Seridei Esh being most lenient (however cf. igrot moshe,
orach chayim 3:5, 4:23 and then 4:65 which tends to be more lenient).  See
also Har Zvi, I, no. 4 that the only issue seems to be the name of G-d
(Adnus, noi at the end or nai).

 

However, nowadays, when one is brought up with Sephardic pronunciation of
Hebrew both in the states or in Israel, I have heard of no one who has
called their pronunciation into question.  

 

In my minyan here in bnei brak, where rav chayim kanyevski's son is the Rav,
harav Shlomo Kanyevski, rosh yeshiva of tiferet zion and kiryat melekh, one
prefers that the chazzan daven with an ashkenazic pronunciation, but no one
has held it to be meakev.  Moreover, all the Sephardim, teimain, etc who
join us in our minyan pronounce their berachot in their native nusach, and
we all answer amen to their berachot.  On the contrary, it would probably be
forbidden not to answer amen.  We includes two grandsons of rav Elyashiv,
the above mentioned rav shlomo kanyevski and his cousin the mot"z rav
avraham zvi yisraelson.  So it would be pretty clear that one should answer
amen to any bracha made by a sephardi Yemenite or someone brought up with a
Sephardic pronunciation.

 

I will add, that many gedolim here hold and actually practice that for
parshat zachor, one should hear other readings by those who have ancient
traditions such as Yemenite.

 

Like I said, eretz yisrael is more chareidish and chenyukish than chul, and
I have yet to see someone not duchan or get an aliya because of Sephardic
pronunciation or anyone would not answer Amen.  The most chassidish satmer
or chanyakish man will daven with a sefardi chazzan at the kotel.

 

Elsewhere, from Jerusalem to bnei brak, to nyc and most other towns outside
of NYC, I have not seen such kepeida in the past 20 years, and consequently
one should answer amen to those brachot and not separate himself from the
zibbur.

 

The only place where one must be scrupulous (contrary to the chumra
mentioned above) is in parashat Zachor which is the only kriya that is
d'oraita (and maybe parashat para according to tosophot)  that one should
hear in his native pronunciation (and then if possible to hear it in
Yemenite, adenite, gerbanite, Iranian, etc). [see Mikrai Kodesh by Rav Zvi
Pesach Frank, purim, p. 88 for the stringency of Zachor, and then p. 97 for
megillah reading and notes there].

 

In most of the stringent rulings, the question was should one change his
pronunciation, and those answers said no, but no one said that if he did
change you could not answer his bracha.

 

Rav teitz's ruling seems to be a da'at yachid only applicable to Elizabeth

(then?) and it would appear that what rav teitz did appears to be applicable
ONLY to his own town, just as he had the authority to prohibit meat that did
not his have approval to be sold there.  Nonetheless, I am not so sure other
posekim would hold of his pesak. Since I know that most rabbanim may not
care to oppose a legitimate mesorah of pronouncing hashem's name of adnus, I
doubt that most or even any of them would agree with this pesak (cf eg
Igerot moshe, even haezer, 4:108 at the end).

 

In any case, I would be interested if :

 

1)       there are really other posekim who say not to answer amen to a

different pronunciation?

 

2)       What is the actual practice today throughout the world, especially

the yeshivashe world? Are they machmir on the accepted practice of what the
Olam of all colors, creed, race, and eidah, does at the Kotel?

 

Bebirchot haTorah

 

Shlomo Pick

 

 

 

 

 

 

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