[Avodah] Akeidah vs. Chet Eigel

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 05:11:13PM +0000, rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com wrote:
: Rebetzin Toby:
: > As long as we continue to sin (even a little bit) in a way that is
: > similar to cheit ha'egel, that cheit has not been fully atoned for
: > and we still have to bear onesh for that cheit. Cheit ha'egel would
: > be worshipping anyone or anything other than Hashem or in addition
: > to Hashem.
: 
: Agreed and
: I would add that
: Heit adam harishon
: Heit ho'egel
: :Heit hameraglim

: Are all exceptions to the 4 generation limit because they are
: paradigmatic.

Where does HQBH write about exceptions?

Also, WRT the point the two of you agree upon....

Are you saying that the usual case of "ve'al ribei'im" totally innocent
people are punished until the 4th generation, just because of their
yichus?

I took it to mean that the sins of the fathers are remembered upon
as many generations as could first-hand remember the grandfathers and
therefore share culpability for not returning to their lifestyle. IOW,
"al rbei'im is only when they continue in the cheit, and bemiddas
harachamim Hashem doesn't punish beyond that. A generation that sins
may obliterate memory of the emes from much of the 2nd generation, most
of the third and nearly all of the fourth. But by the 5th generation,
any continuation of the sin is entirely by tinoqos shenishbe'u.


BTW, recall <grin> that "poqeid" not only means to remember, it also
means to appoint as well as to count. I believe the common theme is that
the items are singled out. It's not counting elements as part of a
whole, but counting them to distinguish them from an amorpous whole (to
"appoint" them), which explains its use for accounting in the title word
of parashas Pequdei. And in that sense, RMP's notion that "poqeid avon
avos" is about a me'eis le'eis memory (since this is about HQBH, it would
be more pedantic to instead say "allowing us to be impacted by a memory")
as opposed to a constant one fits the general feel I get from the shoresh.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Weeds are flowers too
micha at aishdas.org        once you get to know them.
http://www.aishdas.org          - Eeyore ("Winnie-the-Pooh" by AA Milne)
Fax: (270) 514-1507