[Avodah] KSA, MB, AhS, Chayei Adam and other codes

Sun Sep 7 21:06:55 PDT 2008

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Rich, Joel <JRich at sibson.com> wrote:

> Interesting debate which reminds me of what R' Asher Weiss said about
> being a posek - Sometimes a posek must just use his best judgment
> (svarat halev, hargashat halev) and it's hard to draw a clear line
> between logic, emotions, intuition and thoughts. The posek needs a lot
> of siyata d'shmaya.
>
> BTW, iirc the gemara sites halacha lmaaseh as being the best source
> (i.e. it was not just taught in the beit medrash but resulted from an
> actual situation and psak).  If so, how do those who favor the MB over
> the AH"S explain it?
>
> KT
> Joel Rich
>

Micha thinks I am advocating an algorithmic psaq. Not quite

Here is what I am advocating:
An objective approahc or process to psaq.
I am not demanding a uniform RESULT

You can see this manifest between the BY, the SA and the Rema.  Do you know
the single most common sources for the Rema?  It is the BY. yet he is
frequrntly arguing with the SA's resultes But they are debating within THE
SAME BOX!

This is confirmed by the Levush,. The Levush actaully came up wiht a 3rd set
of decissions using ONLY the BY and the Rema.  [The hagahos on the Levush
added some material from OUTSIDE THE BOX]

AISI, their was a kind of Chasima at the time of the SA/Rema. You hardly
ever see nos'ei keilim going back to Talmud of early Rsihonim  except as
background.  Debates on the girsa'os are pretty much settled, even if the
settlement is an greement to disagree.  The early issues are settled and
psaw has moved on.

This is a BIG difference between a page in the Tur and a page in the SA.
Just look at the 2 and see what era is being discussed.

So I could come up with a porgramm of WHAT SOURCES to research but still not
dictate the results of that research. So the algorithm would only be re: the
proces not the conclusion AISI.

Now VERY difficult cases or brand new cases are starting from outside the
Box. The new technologies re: petrie dish and fertizlization etc. blazes new
trails that will need a bit of originality.

But sometimes posqim just state things from out there in left field [or more
likely RIGHT field!]

===================================================================
Re: Huerisitcs:

Using GOOGLE I cam up with the following and I I interpsrsed some comments

Definitions of *heuristics* on the Web:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=03X&defl=en&q=define:heuristics&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

> Of or relating to exploratory problem-solving techniques that utilize
> self-educating techniques (as the evaluation of feedback) to improve ...
> www.tekies.com/Glossary.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://www.tekies.com/Glossary.htm&usg=AFQjCNEgat03sabKc5bcpuvN39_NPaZFVw>
> A rule-based method of identifying new viruses. This method of scanning
> does not rely on specific virus signatures. The advantage of the heuristic
> scan is that it is not fooled by a new variant of an existing virus.
> However, it might occasionally report suspicious code in normal programs.
> ...
> viruscenter.zks.freedom.net/html/glossary.html<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=define&q=http://viruscenter.zks.freedom.net/html/glossary.html&usg=AFQjCNG73OaMTv0-J11yufk2FwNLghA3Aw>
> A problem-solving technique in which the most appropriate solution is
> selected using rules. Interfaces using heuristics may perform different ...
> acypher.com/wwid/BackMatter/Glossary.html<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=2&oi=define&q=http://acypher.com/wwid/BackMatter/Glossary.html&usg=AFQjCNEgkhw01Jz8FByBsjuMLh9WEFZ30w>

This one is not bad

>
> The set of skills for organizing information at the source for effective
> transmission. cf Mnemonics The set of skills for organizing information ...
> siliclone.tripod.com/books/history/H111.html<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=3&oi=define&q=http://siliclone.tripod.com/books/history/H111.html&usg=AFQjCNGlhOBV-hrkWdtzXIiQQwADqk9C6g>
> The informal, judgmental knowledge of an application area that constitutes
> the "rules of good judgment" in the field. ...
> services.eliteral.com/glossary/decision-support-systems-glossary.php<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=4&oi=define&q=http://services.eliteral.com/glossary/decision-support-systems-glossary.php&usg=AFQjCNEhkqvtNg4rXiVCltYGldCUjt_NLg>
> rules of thumb or very simple guidelines used by consumers to simplify and
> expedite their decisions in choosing among alternatives; eg, buy the least
> expensive brand or buy the product that sponsors a favorite baseball team's
> telecasts.
> promoprof.babson.edu/Glossary/h/GlossaryH.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=5&oi=define&q=http://promoprof.babson.edu/Glossary/h/GlossaryH.htm&usg=AFQjCNE3tUn1V0jduNwol_5sjOQ0GDYVeA>
> Guidelines that a system administrator uses to intervene where the
> two-phase commit or abort would otherwise fail.
>
> www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/UserInfo/Resources/Hardware/IBMp690/IBM/usr/share/man/info/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixuser/glossary/H.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=6&oi=define&q=http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/UserInfo/Resources/Hardware/IBMp690/IBM/usr/share/man/info/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixuser/glossary/H.htm&usg=AFQjCNGpisEQrEOEGDTV18ruY59l5j7EPg>
> Any of various problem-solving techniques that involve the use of
> subjective knowledge, hunches, trial-and-error, rule-of-thumb, and other
> such informal but generally accurate methods.

This is the kind of Psaq I oppose: "Subjective hunches".  If a poseiq is
stuck he should reserach for hours and not shoot from the hip.

>
> biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/article/articleDetail.jsp<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=7&oi=define&q=http://biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/article/articleDetail.jsp%3Fid%3D362006%26sk%3D%26date%3D%26pageID%3D21&usg=AFQjCNFULVacJY3BkdlHSxDfqkWLSfbjqA>
> Strategies that people use to solve problems.
> www.geocities.com/chingpascal/glossory.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=8&oi=define&q=http://www.geocities.com/chingpascal/glossory.htm&usg=AFQjCNHGzR61HsD_p0vSNSEE709FYBOd1w>
> A Simple rule of Thumb; technique that works in practice most of the time.
> (Hill Climbing)
> www.bryansaunders.net/ccu/binf/<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=9&oi=define&q=http://www.bryansaunders.net/ccu/binf/&usg=AFQjCNGU-IWVdHof7iORDA8lSnMIr3B47w>
> A heuristic is a method to help to solve a problem, commonly informal. It
> is particularly used for a method that often rapidly leads to a solution ...
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=10&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics&usg=AFQjCNFh3en3AQyH3ClpNPSDwHRJhPMVGQ>

The last one is fine. The BY and Rema basically did this.  I do not know why
every poseiq does not set up a method and use it - and ONLY deviate in the
exceptoinal case.

Kesiva vaChasima Tova
Best Wishes for the New Year 5769
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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