[Avodah] Geirut

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 01:33:12PM -0400, Meir Shinnar wrote:
:> My own read of the Rambam is somewhat similar to yours, but I instead read
:> him as saying that we have a chazaqah that allows us to assume he's a
:> geir -- although we don't really know.
...
:> And therefore if another birur comes along, the chazaqah wouldn't
:> stand. (The chazaqah is already ika rei'usah, our case is "noda shebishvil
:> davar hu misgayeir.)

: The problem with your pshat is the end of the rambam - and the problem
: he is dealing with:
: he concludes that at the end; it was clear to everyone that the
: conversions of neshe shlomo and shimshon were insincere -they were
: only megayer to get married and they never had any intention of
: keeping the mitzvot, and they  didn't keep the mitzvot  as he says, -
: af al pi shenigla sodan.

I find the Rambam quite clear the reverse, that we conclude "ube'isuran
omedin" (IB 13:16, a/k/a 13). Rather, Shimshon and Shelomo erred thinking
that they were geirim kesheirim who later returned to their previous AZ
(halakhah 17/14). The only way I see avoiding a setirah in the Rambam is
if you take the first halakhah as describing the status of the women, and
the second as describing why the husbands did what they did -- in error.

: Why could they keep them? because once converted, even though
: dishonestly (nigla sodan), - meachar shetaval hare ze yisrael...

But 17 (or 14) is about a geir shechazar. One we believe never left is 16
(13). How we know when to invoke 16's "shehokhiach sofan al techilasan"
and when we invoke 17's "afilu chazar ve'oveid AZ" is a difficult metzi'us
all. So difficult, even Shelomo's chokhmah erred in it.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
micha at aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
http://www.aishdas.org   other people think when dealing with spiritual
Fax: (270) 514-1507      matters?              - Rav Yisrael Salanter