[Avodah] Geirut

[Arie Folger]

On Monday, 25. August 2008 00.07:16 Chana Luntz wrote:
> Now apply that principle to the ger katan.   The fact that zakhin lo leadam
> is deemed to be at work means that one has to say, at least vis a vis a
> katan, that being a Jew is a benefit (even if some obligations come along
> with that - which everybody agrees they do, there is no disagreement that
> being a Jew means you are a bar chayuva).  If the chov parts are deemed
> outweigh the benefit parts, or even to really be a significant part, then
> the whole mechanism just would not apply.  But KOM is precisely about chov
> - and the more emphasis you put on it, the less applicable the whole
> concept of zakhin lo leadam appears.

That is were Da'at Beit Din plays a role. If the child will be frum, it will 
consider 'ol mitzvot a privilege that outweighs the cost, and ZLASLBF will 
work. However, if the child won't be observant, it will be objectively a 
setback to have been converted, and hence beit din would have had no right 
[and according to many posqim: no possibility] to convert such a child.

<SNIP>
> In the real world, I can see many many
> reasons why a beis din would not want to convert somebody whose parents or
> guardians are not frum (and beis din certainly has discretion), but the
> sources just do not seem to bear out the assumption that a beis din is
> therefore not permitted to do so, and that if they did so, that the person
> is not, prima facie, Jewish - unless they perform a whole song and dance on
> gadlus to get them out of it.

The "song and dance [up]on gadlus" is performed in order to avoid problems 
further down the line, when it becomes unclear if there was or can still be a 
me'haah, and what to do if behavior [nonobservance] contradicts stated 
preference [wants to have become Jewish].

However, the greater issue is under what circumstances beis din can convert a 
minor, period. Rav Moshe entertained the thought that it is a zekhut to even 
be amongst the posh'ei Yisrael, but that was because the kids were in a frum 
school, and the odds were there that they would become frum, and hence, 
bishe'at giyur there was a decent expectation of classical zekhut hu lo for 
the children to convert. IOW, if you'd want to solve the Russian nokhri 'olim 
crisis by converting the children AND putting them all through Shuvu-type 
qiruv schools, that would very well work according to many posqim. Barring a 
religious education in a day school setting, I very much doubt that RMF would 
have considered his thoughts about it possibly being a zekhut to even become 
one of the posh'ei Yisrael sufficient to succesfully convert a child.

If the mechanism for conversions of minors is zekhut hu lo - as the sources 
indicate -, then beit din has a lot less leeway than some people think. When 
it ain't a zekhut, the deal never happened!

KT,
-- 
Arie Folger
http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com