[Avodah] Geirus

[Arie Folger]

R'nCL wrote:
> The fact that
> they are two separate concepts can be seen by the modern day separation
> that occurs - a person (eg take a modern day Israeli of Russian descent)
> wants to be a Jew and identifies themself as a Jew.  They do not however
> want to be shomer mitzvos.  If such a person was converted as a katan, they
> would unquestionably not protest on reaching majority (and would use every
> opportunity to proclaim that they are a Jew).  They would also keep on
> eating pork, being mechalel shabbas etc.  The statement you bring in
> Kesubos above therefore does not fit to them, they are not in the slightest
> going to protest.  Or alternatively, you will have to define KOM as being
> not wanting to protest being called a Jew.

The majority of posqim - e.g., those who require KOM even bedi'avad, would say 
that, based on how the Talmud explains 'Ameikh 'Ami vE-lohayikh E-lohai, that 
you cannot meaningfully separate between the two. To be a Jew is to be a 
bar 'hiayuva, and you cannot at once meaningfully state that you want to 
become (or for a qatan "have become") Jewish and yet refuse teh 'ol mitzvot.

Hence, to refuse 'ol mitzvot is synonymous with saying one doesn't want to 
have become Jewish. In the case of someone who was converted as a qatan, that 
renders the conversion retroactively invalid.

By the way, in order to disentangle this issue, I have taken to explain - in 
the rare cases of a ger qatan I might be involved in, that come age 12/13, 
we'll give the child two and only two choices, which the child should be able 
to meaningfully choose: either be Jewish and fulfil mitzot, or neither. We 
will not ask "do you want to be Jewish," and the parents cannot expect the 
answer to be considered meaningful and credible unless their home is one in 
which KOM is feasible/ a reality.

> Secondly, as I have pointed out in a previous posting - there is no act of
> positive acceptance by such a katan on becoming a gadol.  Even if we were
> able to identify the precise moment of majority, such a person remains a
> Jew by being passive.  In order to not be a Jew they have to actively shlug
> off the Jewish status by protesting. By acting positively as a Jew what
> they do is then lose even that option of shluging off the conversion.

But I am not convinced that coming to your bar mitzva service in a car and 
having announced a "qidush" in a seafood venue where the child will toast to 
lobster doesn't sound like a convincing form of being passive. The actions 
scream "I don't want 'ol mitzvot."

Kind regards,
-- 
Arie Folger
http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com