[Avodah] Can you build a community around Halakhic Man?

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 07:42:19PM -0400, David Riceman wrote:
:                         One of the consequences of eilu v'eilu is that 
: both sides of an argument can be understood as clear and inevitable.  In 
: fact it points to another problem with HM (the essay).  We know that HM 
: (the person) has to pasken in order to live, but HMTE never discusses 
: how HMTP does that; it can't be done by using a priori categories.

I disagree with the problem, but then, I'm looking at the whole thing
differently.

As I see it, RYBS is describing the study of what I'll call "divrei
E-lokim chaim", halakhah before one reaches the pragmatic level, as a
means of clarifying halachic categories and raising them to the level
of inevitability. Which, in the case of there being two tzedadim, will
produce a chaqira, a dialectic tension of inevitable halachic desiderata.
(An awkward word I've been using too often lately.)

Then, RYBS's usual engine - dialectic forces choice and thus creativity
- becomes the mechanism for pesaq. For translating "eilu va'eilu divrei
E-lokim chaim" into "vehalakhah keBH".

I am arguing that this is his thesis in places like the Lonely Man of
Faith and Ramatayim Tzofim (which is more properly called his address
to the YU Rabbinic Alumni Assoc on Mar 1, 1956, and should properly be
called Ramasayim Tzoifim, to match the Yiddish in which is was given).
That dialectic and creativity are at the root of the actual living
according to halakhah, not "merely" its study, and the root of finding
a coexistence of both peaks.

My whole thesis rests upon the observation that RYBS's TuM-like concept
demands pragmatic use of the individual's creativity. As does his
expectation of how we relate to halakhah in general. For that matter,
I take the above two sentences back as a false oversimplification (but
leaving them in this post for contrast) -- pragmatic halakhah and the
two peaks are to RYBS the same issue, living with halachic categories
in this world.

: >More that someone trying to be living dialectically based creativity in
: >which one of the archetypes is HM -- and thus that creativity includes
: >halakhah -- needs a certain level of expertise. Not that high, but beyond
: >what most balebatim will bother gaining and if gained, will often apply.

: But they're capable of attaining it.  If they were brought up in this 
: hypothetical community (I'm tempted to call it HMTC) they would believe 
: it to be obligatory, and then they would "bother" to attain it.

In the ideal yes. My point is that people don't follow ideals, so that a
community's ideal not only has to have a positive peak for its successes,
but not have a trough at the point where the majority of people find
themselves. More is great, but a little is also good. With a trough,
it's more is great, but trying to do it when you can't is worse than
not trying.

A weak chassid is ahead of someone who doesn't have chassidus. But a
weak person who is told "be creative" is behind someone who is not told
to create.

Which is why I wasn't discussing the problems with the ideal, such as
"the Mussar objection". I was discussing the problems with teaching it
to large groups of people, a community, rather than to people you know
are likely to make it past that initial trough.

: >Yes, that HM in terms of rebuilding oneself to conform with halakhah's
: >a priori categories. But that's not becoming a creative partner with
: >G-d in how one deals with life's conflicts, including making halakhah
: >into a partnership excercise.

: Now you're confusing means with ends.  The "rebuilding oneself to 
: conform with halakhah's
: a priori categories" is a means to "becoming a creative partner with
: G-d in how one deals with life's conflicts".

Again, I disagree. The creativity is in how to take a priori categories
and live in an a posteriori world. This is how Halakhic Man has a
religious life that isn't homo religiosus passivity. Thus, I see the
creative partnership as the means of conforming, not the other way around.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

PS: We're probably maddeningly boring to the non-YU majority here.
Sorry.

-- 
Micha Berger             Despair is the worst of ailments. No worries
micha at aishdas.org        are justified except: "Why am I so worried?"
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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