[Avodah] Ethical questions

[Micha Berger]

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:02:17PM -0400, Rich, Joel wrote:
: Murder is yehareg vaal yaavor based on logic (San 74a - who says your
: blood is redder).
: Question 1 - based on this logic if the 3rd party says he will kill both
: reuvain and shimon if reuvain won't kill shimon, does the result change?

An odd result of Cantor's work on transfinite numbers is that there are
as many even integers as integers altogether (even and odd). Take the
set of integers: 1, 2, 3, 4... and the set of even integers: 2, 4, 6,
8... They can be paired 1-to-1, simply by multiplying each member in the
first set by 2. To wit:
 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 ...
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | ...
 2  4  6  8 10 12 14 16 18 ...
Despite intuition, the sets are of the same size, they are both
infinite! (Alef-null, to be specific as to the kind of infinite.)
2* infinity = infinity.

If we posit that human life has infinite value, wouldn't that mean that
two lives aren't actually more valuable than one? The same 2 * infinity
= infinity.

I don't think the Rambam believed in the possibility of completed
infinities. The notion that the chain of causes can't be infinitely long,
is pretty fundamental to his proof of G-d as Unmoved Mover in Moreh II:1.
So, the Rambam's sevara can't be based on 2*infinity = infinity. You
could never actually have an infinity to multiply.

I just like the math thing personally, and wanted to throw it in.


RARR discusses this topic at length on MP3. Here's what I wrote down,
although I listen to the recordings while commuting, so double-check!

The Y-mi Terumos 47a distinguishes between the case where no particular
victim is singled out, such that it's the Jews' choice who will die,
and one where they name a particular victim (as in RJR's case).

In the first case, it's assur, and this is what we find in the Rambam
Yesodei haTorah 5:5 and the Rama YD 157:1. The Kesef Mishnah (sham)
explains that "mai chazis" makes it assur to pick any Jew out of the set.

Where the victim was named, there is a machloqes R' Yochanan and Reish
Laqish.

R' Yochanan and the Beis Yosef (YD 157) hold that the person may be
turned over to save the group.

The Kesef Mishnah and Rashi (Sanhedrin 74b "yatza rosho") explains R'
Yochanan on the above basis -- the victim set aren't choosing the person,
so mai chazis doesn't apply.

The IM YD 2:60 quotes the Maharam Shick who says the assymetry allows
us to point fo Shim'on as an unwitting rodeif.

Reish Laqish, the Rambam, and the Rama (who brings both shitos in his
hagah, but in his teshuvah 11 takes sides) holds that one may not.

We're still not at RJR's case. Now we have to jump from turning the
person over to be killled to killing him oneself.

The Meiri (Sanhedrin 72b) says that turning him over is allowed, but
not actively killing.

The CI (YD 69) discusses the question of diverting an arrow aimed at
a crowd such that it hits one and only one person, and is left without
a maskanah.

RARR gave the following heart-wrenching question:
During the First Lebanon War some soldiers entered a building, and didn't
find opposition. So, as they made it close to the top of the building,
another 200 or so boys entered the building. The building was blown up.

Those not in the building faced a decision, and this is what they asked
the rav (who I think was RARR himself, although he didn't name himself,
but he was in Beirus during that war) to decide. They had two choices:

1- They could save the 10 boys at the top of the pile, odds were high
that they could nearly all of them. But by the time they got past the
top of the rubble, the chance of saving anyone else is slim.
or
2- They could bulldoze away those 10, and probably save around 50 or so
from the bulk of the ruins. But you would be actively killing those 10.

The decision was that halachically, one must passively allow those 50
or so die rather than actively murder 10. He didn't say on the MP3 what
was actually done. I presume none of the students in the room had the
chutzpah to press this particular topic.


Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The Maharal of Prague created a golem, and
micha at aishdas.org        this was a great wonder. But it is much more
http://www.aishdas.org   wonderful to transform a corporeal person into a
Fax: (270) 514-1507      "mensch"!     -Rabbi Israel Salanter