[Avodah] aveilus of Nine Days is equivalent to Shloshim

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 01:15:41PM -0400, Rich, Joel wrote:
: Forced to assume? Wouldn't it be appropriate to assume kol dtakkun
: rabbanan K'ein duraita tikun and that "minhag" regarding aveilut for
: beit hamikdash would have originated (or been shaped) with the rabbis
: not the people?

Does minhag start with the rabbanan? If so, how do you distinguish
between minhag and a din derabbanan?

I thought that minhag was common practice as ratified by the rabbanan.
And that the Rambam (Mamrim 2:2-3) is a daas yachid in requiring proactive
ratification rather than considering shetiqah kehoda'ah sufficient.

We had this out on list back in 2001 (vol 6) and in 2002 (WRT qitniyos
being minhag). RAM writes at the end of the latter thread
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol08/v08n115.shtml#03>:
> I wrote <<< My understanding is that a "minhag" is a "way of acting";
> a person (or group of people) takes it upon himself. A "gezerah", in
> contrast, is imposed on the group from the outside. >>>

> R' Micha Berger wrote <<< Perhaps, but there is a role of beis din in
> a minhag. Hilchos Mamrim 2:2-2:3 refers to a beis din that "hinhigu
> minhag". I suggested that they endorse a norm already being practiced
> rather than takanos which they craft themselves. A gezeirah is only one
> kind of takanah -- that which was created to avoid violation of an issur
> through accident or habit. Takanos can also be ... >>>

> Thank you for the clarification, which seems to support the way I used
> to describe my distinction: A minhag is something which originates with
> the people, and is ratified by the rabbis. (If the rabbis reject it, or
> choose not to endorse it, it is considered a silly minhag, or mistaken
> minhag, or wrong minhag, and the followers can and should cease to
> follow it.) In contrast, a takanah (which includes gezeros and perhaps
> other forms of d'rabanan) originates with the rabbis, and is ratified by
> the people. (If the majority of the people are unable to abide by it,
> it ceases to have the force of law, but stays on the books as a strong
> recommendation. Pas Palter and Tevilas Ezra are my favorite examples.)

> I acknowledge that this distinction between minhag and d'rabanan is very
> simplistic, and is the output of this comparatively uneducated mind.
> Nevertheless, I have found it to be useful, have not noticed any
> exceptions to it, and I offer it to the public for whatever little use
> they might find it.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "And you shall love H' your G-d with your whole
micha at aishdas.org        heart, your entire soul, and all you own."
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