[Avodah] R' Samson Raphael Hirsch and the Imrei Emes (Gerrer Rebbe)

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:47:18AM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
> : What is interesting is that Yekkes by and large learn little mussar at
> all.
> : They just practice a very polite and proper way of life.  I wonder if
> 1,000
> : mussar books are worth a few ounces of actual practice ingrained into a
> : community.
>
> In Madreigas haAdam (first essay), the Alter of Novhardok explains the
> need for mussar by starting with Avraham avinu and breaking down history
> into eras. In the era he calls the era of the yeshiva, from chazal until
> the haskalah, there was a symbiotic relationship between yeshiva and
> ir. They shared one culture and one outlook.
>
> With the haskalah a rift opened. The street went out of sync with the
> yeshiva. What was until then transmitted culturally was no longer being
> passed down.
>
> RYS had to come up with a formal methodology for teaching that which
> until then people were learning by osmosis. That methodolgy to create
> the person our environment should have made us is Mussar.
>
> I think therefore the Alter of Novhardok would answer RRW with a
> resounding "definitely". But cultures dissolve, and then all you're left
> with is books and techniques to try to mold who you are.
>
> : After leaving a very pollite/coureeous society in West Hartford to go to
> : various Yeshivos, the first [and one of the only] community that gave me
> the
> : feel of  "home" was  the Washington Heights community in  which  people
> : naturally had a sense of etiquette.
>
> Not that I'm ch"v accusing Breuer's of having one but not the other, but
> in principle "etiquette" and ehrlachkeit are different things. E.g. the
> Victorian British were renown for their abilities at politely stabbing
> each other in the back.
>
> *Yaft* E-lokim leyefes. It's an aesthetic of interpersonal relations, not
> a substance. It's not for nothing that "polite" comes from the past
> participal of the Latin meaning "to polish". Surface.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
> --


They have ACCUSED --smile-  RSRH as being a walking mussar sefer. My point
is that musarr seforim work better when they walk. I attend ner israel
[named after RYS hi9mself BTW] I found Mussar shmuessen a mixed bag at
best.  sometimes it engendered leitznus - just like praise can engender avak
lashon hara.

OTOH, i have found that MANY talmiddim from certain yeshivos do have really
good Middos. Breuer's is one and "Chofetz Chaim" is another.

I did not mean to attack Mussar, I meant to question the efficacy of READING
or LEARNING mussar from a sefer. It works MUCH better when I society
practices it.

You can learn techniques from a Sefer, how to execute something better, but
I have rarely seen Mussar "book" learning do that much good. [a reall
farbrente ba'al teshuva might be a valid  exception]

OF course a person who is MOTIVATED to change can get hizzuk from a good
Musar Sefer.

BTW, I am looking to start a list of Seforim that  re-inforce Ahavas
Yisroel. I have found 2 really good ones so far


   1. Tanna devei Eliyahu
   2. Sh'miras Halashon

If someone wants to break off a thread on Sifrei Ahavas Ysiroel I would be
pleased.



RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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