[Avodah] An old Pshat and a Question About Milchig on Shavuos

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:17:19AM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
: Indeed "cheit" [as opposed to Avon or pesha] can mean error or missing the
: mark.  The translation of Cheit as sin can often make the text a bit
: harsher.  While we may be held RESPONSIBLE for fixing a heit, we are not
: always "guilty" in the same way one would be in a pesha. Responsible to Fix
: YES. Guilty for error, is perhaps too strong,perhaps obligated to CORRECT an
: erro, obligted for Tikkun [or korban chatas] might be a better understanding
: - more charitable, too.

Can't one be guilty of being insufficiently careful? IOW, anything that
would explain why a shogeig requires a qorbon chatos (note the name!)
would moreso explain the guilt of a misdirected person.

: Don't forget that terms such as chov and Chayyav can mean obligated as wells
: as culpable/liable.

A chov is a deficiency that needs repaying.

A person is inherently incomplete, and thus he has chiyuvim to complete
himself.

An avaryan creates a deficiency in himself, which can then be repaired
through onesh. Although "chiyuv qareis" doesn't work so well to this
definition, if qareis refers to cessation of existence upon death.

: FWIW, a favorite Shabbas Shuva Draswha of mine was to point out that it was
: NOT Adam's "sin" that got him kicked out of Gan Eden, but his lack of
: Teshuva. Same With Sha'ul re: Amaleik. [and perhaps Kayyin re: Hevel, too]

But Sha'ul does say "chatasi" (Shemu'el I 15:24)! Is it the imperfection
of his teshuvah, that Shemu'el required to drag out 11 pesuqim of
excuses first?

I would instead have read the pesuqim to conclude that Sha'ul was
punished simply because that is what motivated the teshuvah. Not that he
was punished for not doing teshuvah, but that he was punished in order
to get the teshuvah out of him. His Father in heaven saying "I'm doing
this for your own good", so to speak. Which is how I would understand
the role of onesh altogether.

Not repayment for sin in a fiscal model, but repair after the sin. Which
ties into what I was saying about the causal connection between sin and
metaphysical impact.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
micha at aishdas.org        with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
http://www.aishdas.org   Kippur with that intent.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rabbi Israel Salanter