[Avodah] Rosh Hashanah 32b There's Hope For Everyone

[Michael Makovi]

> What is really sad is that my arugin with the taz was seen as disrespecting
> the Taz. When we argued with rebbes in yeshiva it was not considered
> disrespect, it was not personal.  Reish Lakish pikced uon Rabbi Yochanan a
> lot. THIS  has changed. All of a sudden arguing with a Talmid Chacham is
> somehow "dangerous."   Maybe at some yeshivos they were ALWAYS like this but
> my background at Ner Israel and YU was not like this. We felt free to
> question,shlug up nd siagree as long as we were within the bounds of
> decency. And we got heated.
>
> Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
> RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com

Heck, I remember when **I** was arguing against a Rashi regarding
grera d'grera in Shabbat perek shevi'i (I've been studying Gemara for
about one-and-a-half years of my life now, so for me to argue against
Rashi...yeah):

We had a case of doing two melachot (A and B), first b'helem achat of
not knowing the day was Shabbat, and then doing the same two melachot
in two different helems of not knowing the melachot themselves.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                     |
| A and B, both shogeg b'shabbat in ONE helem |
|                                                                     |
--------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|                                |                                     |
| A b'melacha             | B' melacha                    |
|                                |                                     |
---------------------------------|-------------------------------------|

The Gemara says that if you bring a chatat on A in the second helem
(b'melacha), it also covers the A in the first helem (b'shabbat), and
the B in the same first helem (b'shabbat), and then the B in the
second helem (b'melacha). So one chatat covers three helems.

The reason is because of gerira and gerira d'grira. The question is,
what is grerira-ing what?

If I remember correctly:

Rashi says that A b'shabbat and A b'melacha are one unit as far as
chatat is concerned, without grerira; this then greriras B b'shabbat,
which then greriras B b'melacha.

But I disagreed with Rashi. I insisted that A b'melacha greriras A
b'shabbat - I said grerira is necessary because they're two different
helems even if they happen to be the same melacha; I said grerira
ought to draw one melacha after the same melacha in a different helem
Then A and B b'shabbat are one helem and therefore one unit that
doesn't need grerira, and then this greriras B b'melacha.

There really isn't a nafka mina, except for an incredibly complex case
that is too absurd even for Gemara (but not too absurd for me to
contrive it anyway!), but still, I disagreed with Rashi.

My rabbi wasn't perturbed at all. He just said, "Hold up, hold up,
Tosafot says what you say! Let's just first work on understanding
Rashi!"

Mikha'el Makovi