[Avodah] When does mixed swimming mean?

[Minden]

1. We don't pasken straight from a gemore.

2. Even if a certain type of behaviour is typical of a zône, one would have to kler whether it is inherent or if it was their habit in a given place and historical period.

3. Taking a bath, for practical reasons of enhanced cleansing probably naked, isn't going for a swim in a swimsuit.

4. I'm afraid I don't understand the "al aches kame vekame". (Apart from that, after a week of living in the Ancient Near East, a bath is at least as relaxing as a swim, I take it.) So, scrubbing yourself in public while naked isn't good, aakv"k swimming. Alright, I see your swim and raise you aakv"k a Shabbes chat in the shul court. Even more leisure and relaxing than swimming. (It's not of import here that it's also forbidden in some circles.)

5. Calling a ben odem not a ben odem isn't worthy of a ben odem, IMHO. I don't know if the SR zetza"l actually said what you quote or if this was only (dis)credited to him, but I used to think that this "typical chareidi" hateful haughtiness was actually just a matter of some marginal representatives. Also, technically, this utterance presumes that mixed swimming is universally a natural no-no for humans, not a societal custom or a matter of human refinement through God's laws.

ELPhM

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