[Avodah] Ta'am of eating matzah

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 01:49:04AM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
:> : You are taking issue with the idea that the Torah presumes knowledge
:> : of Egytian bread and pagan meat and milk...

:> I'm taking issue with the idea that we need such knowledge to get the
:> primary gain from the mitzvah.
...
: The poitn of the above is simple. That kema'aseh eretz mitzryaim at the end
: of Achaarie Mos MIGHT be NOW undserstood in light of this factoid as a
: META_MITAVAH like KEDOSHIM TIHYU

: You seem to think that a paradigm shift is somehow intrinsically evil...

Again, I feel a need to point out that we're discussing different topics
on this one. You are speaking of changes in understanding. I'm talking
about change in function.

This mitzvah is an os. Whatever function the mitzvah has must be based on
a symbology we can understand. Sometimes the symbol's meaning is universal
to the human condition: qorbanos or buying flowers for a wife who never
looks tat them after they're in the vase are innate to how people try to
express closeness. Totafos bein einekha will have common meaning because
people have their eyes before their brains, so that tefillin shel rosh
naturally gets associated with sight and thought.

Chuqim could be transformative in this category; changing our souls in
ways we can not perceive or comprehend.

And sometimes the symbology has to be spelled out. So the Torah tells us
about yetzi'as mitzrayim and the lack of time to bake matzos. Or that we
dwelled in sukkos in the midbar, or that tzitzis, which comes with its
"lema'an" spelling out the meaning of the symbol.

Here you are explaining the *function* of the mitzvah as being closed
except to intelligensia in non-Torah subjects.

My problem isn't that the explanation changes as we recover information
about ancient Egyptian worship and cuisine. At least, not explanation
qua explanation. But these mitzvos are symbolic; their transformative
property inheres in their ability to get someone to internalize a message.
And you're saying that message is something most Jews wouldn't and over
history couldn't know. It's that the mitzvah is being explain in a way
that it has no redeeming effect on the one who performs it except for
the few who are in on these secrets.

By making basar vechalav about defying the norms we acquired in
Egypt, you're saying that Rabbi Aqiva couldn't have been ennobled when
separated them because he couldn't internalize a message he had no way of
knowing. That he gained nothing beyond simply expressing blind obedience.

Such understandings might embellish the point of a mitzvah, but I would
not define a taam hamitzvah in terms not accessible to all Jews.

: Example Being introduced to Chiastic structures [mostly by Menachem Liebtag]
...

Which has nothing to do with our discussion, which as I wrote (three
times now) our disagreement is limited to the problem of ta'am hamitzvah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 39th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        5 weeks and 4 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Netzach sheb'Yesod: What is imposing about a
Fax: (270) 514-1507                          reliable person?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 39th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        5 weeks and 4 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Netzach sheb'Yesod: What is imposing about a
Fax: (270) 514-1507                          reliable person?